Director Zack Snyer held a special 3-day event called “The Director’s Cuts”, featuring special screenings of three of his movies this week. After the Sunday, March 24 “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” Ultimate Edition screening Snyder signed autographs for fans who attended, and one fan asked him about the existence of the famed “Snyder Cut” of “Justice League”.
“I mean all I can tell you is that, sure there’s a cut, it’s done. They have a cut. They have a bunch of them… so, it’s not like… it’s up to them.”
It’s done. It’s up to them.
Tried cleaning up the audio a bit to make what he’s saying more discernible@wbpictures #ReleaseTheSnyderCut pic.twitter.com/VUuxqWLK8d
— Charlie (@SnyderCutJL) March 26, 2019
It appears, according to the man himself, that Snyder’s version of the “Justice League” movie does exist in some form, and that Warner Bros. have it… indeed, they have a number of different cuts of the film in their archives. Whether we’ll ever get to see them is a different matter altogether.
Hmmm…
Is this where we get to say that Snyder is “living in a dreamworld”?
Seriously. Even if it does exist, it’s not getting released at a time when DC is on a role. With 2 films under his belt there’s enough evidence to suggest it would have been another very divisive film.
This is where we say “I told you so” to all the naysayers that said it never existed….. just up to WB’s new head replacement to decide to follow through or not with it.
I have to be honest, I’m still not so sure. There very likely is *a* cut, but several sources have said it’s not anywhere near done cgi/etc wise. Snyder might be right, I honestly don’t know. But he has absolutely shown that he has an interest (for some reason) in keeping this whole thing going, and he’s safe to say that “it’s up to them”. He knows they won’t release the Snyder cut because there’s likely too much to do to get it ready, and after taking a bath at the box office (in WB’s mind, anyway) they won’t bother… Read more »
There is a reason that WB actively distanced the franchise from the style ZS was going for, whether or not there is a ZS cut is irrelevant.
Yeah…the reason being WB had a bunch of dumb execs. Now the main guy is gone, so whoever takes his place might see reason to release it eventually. And they actually have kept with the Snyder style. Both WW & Aquaman had Snyder-like slo mo fight scenes & cinematography. Shazam might too. The Snyder cut is still relevant since WB has never said we are going to forget those movies every existed. But the fact remains it’s been confirmed that it does exists…to which so many people laughed at that thought, now have just been proven wrong. If they can… Read more »
Hopefully we will get it!!
Maybe style is the wrong word. Tone. They are avoiding the dark, grim tone that he kept going for that pushed fans away. Don’t believe me, check out the archives on this very website. And just about anywhere else for that matter. Money doesn’t lie. All of his movies under performed and when they went in another direction they made more money. Look at WW and Aquaman
I would also add that they gave Wonder Woman and Aquaman more to say and let them be more charismatic in their solo ventures. Personality went a long way in those films. I don’t think this should be dismissed. Superman was given very little to say in both Superman Returns and the Snyder films and I think this contributed to audiences not gravitating towards his character. The dialogue has to be better for him. He spoke in very short sentences in both MOS and BVS and mainly asked questions so that Zod or Batman could go into lengthy monologues. Momoa… Read more »
Definitely, Superman was a side character in his own movies and that didn’t help. I honestly enjoyed MOS, I thought it was a good start, the end of the movie we see Supes start acting more like himself, start coming into his own. Then BvS does a complete 180 and goes all grim dark and turns Supes into a mute, manic depressive and Batman into the Punisher. The tone of that movie was all wrong, the silent Superman was a side effect of trying to maintain that dark tone. JL was a mess, that was it’s biggest problem, but as… Read more »
This is very true. But on the other hand there is that old saying “Actions speak louder than words” & Superman did save a ton of people in MOS & BvS (actually more than in Donner’s Superman movies), but it also showed us his doubts (a relatable human concept) for the other half of society thinking he was a “bad guy” so to speak & it’s negative effect on him. The impact I felt a lot of people missed was even with his doubts on whether or not he should keep doing what he was doing, he still sacrificed himself… Read more »
Well if actions are speaking than Superman’s led them here in the first place! Joking aside, I didn’t mind him being unsure of himself in MOS, but he clearly was in a different place by the end of the film when he was joking around with Swanwick. It was a conscious decision to plunge him back into self doubt in BvS, his character didn’t really develop beyond that. I think having half of society being afraid of him is a great concept and I think they could have set that up better in MOs with him saving people and having… Read more »
I don’t really need to check the archive…only a dozen members or so that speak out about it isn’t really justification (or concern) enough, not to mention I have been on other forums with well over 100 active member on the subject & it isn’t 1 sided one way or another. There is however 1 huge flaw in your explanation that nobody else seems to get either. Both WW & Aquaman are the 1st movies on the big screen of their respective characters. This also contributed to their success, as I’m sure will happen with Shazam. WW was actually pretty… Read more »
Except that Aquaman has been a b-list, joke character for decades and he still out performed Batman, easily DCs most popular character, and Superman, an absolute icon. And that’s not because it was his 1st movie, which in itself isn’t entirely true because he was in JL, same for WW, she was in BvS before going solo, no, they both did better because they were portrayed with an actual personality. Something Superman lacked completely in MOS and BvS. I have been reading Superman comics since the late 80s, I am aware that he has depth. I have no problem with… Read more »
I couldn’t agree with this more. It can not be stated enough that Superman lacked personality in both BvS and MOS. Actually, I’ll rephrase that, he lacked charisma. He is portayed as wooden and THAT is why audiences didn’t respond to him. He doesn’t have to be making quips or rehash the Reeve version, but give him more to work with. Self doubt is fine, but c’mon, out of 5 hours and two films with him that’s all we were given. I also agree that just because Zack threw in some Easter eggs doesn’t make him well versed in source… Read more »
I respectfully disagree. WW & Aquaman were still their 1st respective movies (not movie appearances that add up to 15 mins of screen time if that…there is a difference) & I stand by the fact that it contributed (not all) to their success…because people have been wanting to see a WW & Aquaman movie for years) Aquaman was only the butt end of jokes by a group of people doing so for no other purpose other than that & it stuck for some reason…was never justified. His new 52 title sold very well & cemented himself out of that parody… Read more »
Knowing one story (DKR) does not make him an expert. Yeah there are allusions to that story, but he misse she entire point of that story. My problem is with how it was written. The batmobile chase scene didn’t make any sense. Killing is fine, but it didn’t make any sense in that scene. Also. They didn’t have to write the hearing scene in that way. It was a conscious decision to have Superman not speak. Again, I don’t hate Snyder, but I don’t think he’s a strong storyteller. His visuals are great though, I won’t argue that. Also, I… Read more »
(Response to Sundevil82’s 3/30/19 11:12pm post) Yep. By the time JL came out, early box office for JL showed that audiences had given up on the vision of what had been happening in MoS and BvS. It wasn’t that it dropped off – it wasn’t there to begin with. So I’d say general audiences spoke pretty strongly with their wallets that this wasn’t Superman or Batman, at least to them. And if we’re being honest, the main thing that likely saved BvS was that it was the first movie with Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman together. If, say, Reeve and… Read more »
Indeed Kal-Elvis… also I think it hurt not having Superman a part of the marketing campaign.
There was already a a divided audience after Man Of Steel… it was surprising that they stuck with Snyder for 2 movies back to back and only got rid of him after the second one disappointed. That’s just not good management. Even if they had at least delayed three release of Justice League for a bit while they got a new director , it could only have helped their situation
Well, I think WB was too anxious to catch up to Avengers and the MCU team-ups. They thought they could do it in 3-4 movies and pull a sort of “reverse-MCU”. After MoS, the reaction was mixed but not absolutely abysmal. And WB being WB, they figured adding Batman would mean instant box office (which was basically true, up to that point). And since they didn’t have much time, JL had to be started not longer after BvS went public. In that sense, I do get why the did what they did. It took BvS for them to realize that… Read more »
Which only proves how bad the management is. The higher ups clearly dont know what they’re doing. They hired the wrong people to begin with, then thought they could just plaster symbols on these films and everyone would just eat them up regardless of quality. This is the way execs used to look at comic book properties back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s,the dark ages of comic movies! In that way DC regressed and didn’t help the genre at all… I’m first and foremost a Superman fan, Dc fan, but I’m also a marvel fan and I’ve never… Read more »
Batman didn’t kill anybody in The Dark Knight Returns. If anything that story really drove home the point that Batman doesn’t kill, so yeah, it does kind of prove that ZS doesn’t get it.
And BvS was so full of plot holes and required such huge leaps in logic to follow that Batroc would have trouble keeping up. Even the DC which filled in some of those plot holes still doesn’t have these characters acting in any kind of logical way.
Actually he DID…please re read that Graphic Novel. That very scene where he breaks through the wall & takes the giant machine gun & shoots the mutant holding that kid hostage which he drops & Batman catches the kid. (That panel even shows the mutant’s blood spattered behind him with bullets holes. Pretty clear to me he shot him in that panel. (This whole BvS scene is similar to what’s in TDKR)
And he even beat the Joker to death in that book in the theme park to…LMAO…so much for that no killing theory..
I stand corrected about joker….I forgot he made it look like Batman had killed him, though his wounds were still extensive enough as it was. That was an error on my part. but he still shot the mutant with a gun. Unless the panel was poorly drawn it was clear to me every time I read it.
They show him shoot and they show the mutant fall, but it never expressly says that he killed the mutant, considering the next couple of pages go into detail about his reemergence I would think that would be brought up. And he definitely doesn’t kill the joker
In fact, I’m reading it now. Later in the book, right before the Joker scene, an interview is going on with Lana Lang and she explicitly states that Batman hasn’t killed anyone. So he may have shot the mutant, but it wasn’t fatal.
Looking through TDKR now, I don’t see him kill anyone.
So yeah, ZS missed the point. As I stated before, Batman may have killed, but it was never an easy choice and it never came without repercussions. This Batman kills a lot of people without hesitation or remorse or even a second thought. And the DC is even worse on that regard, because the warehouse fight scenes add blood splatter to several people he smashes into walls/boxes/whatever, implyig that instead of just beating them up he is crushing skulls and killing even more people.
Seriously? I think your stuck in the Adam West campyness of how Batman should fight in a movie based in today’s world. There was nothing wrong with that fight scene, even in the context of the movie. (& since the moves were taken right from The Batman Arkham games, I don’t recall people saying that is not Batman or to0 violent for him) He just got the crap beaten out of him by Superman & he is in a survival mode (kill or be killed) since those warehouse thugs aren’t going to capture him, tie him up & give a… Read more »
I’m not stuck in a 60s campy interpretation, that’s not even close to what I’m saying, that’s what you are saying. I enjoyed the fight scene, I thought it was well done, best bat choreography so far. I’m saying that the addition of the blood spatter also adds the implication of killing, something that Batman characteristically doesn’t do. The theatrical cut does it without the blood, making Batman beat them up, but leaving them alive, something completely in line with his character. Then we get the DC, closer to ZS vision which then takes Batman further into needless killing which… Read more »
Needless kills…you make it sound like he killed a dumb punk robbing a woman’s purse in a pleasure rage. These aren’t dumb thugs in an alley, …theses are specially trained mercs hired by Luthor to kill him no matter what when Batman has just suffered a Super beating. Like I said before, survival instinct kicks in. You said you the choreography was done well, ok…than physics play into that…you are going to see blood & skull splitting in that kind of fight…but you made it sound like Kill Bill level of blood, which it was not. Either way we see… Read more »
You keep talking about using ‘common sense’ when talking about these parts in the movie, but if I use that, then the fight doesn’t make sense in the first place. No reason for Batman to be alone during that fight unless it’s what the writer:/director wanted. Logic be damned. Common sense led me to ask immediately… why did it take Superman the whole length of the warehouse fight to get to Luthor??he could have helped and then flew over…. it was already presented that Superman could take out a hostage taker with a GUN POINTED RIGHT AT LOISS HEAD in… Read more »
I have it in my hands to . it clearly shows blood behind the mutant. Doesn’t matter what it “reads” in the comics as it was the “story” was there to mislead the reader to keep that “facade” of batman innocent….it was drawn to implied he killed him. (also contradicts Batman’s “guns are for cowards” line when he himself just used one) You don’t just up & walk away from being shot practically point blank range from a huge heavy caliber machine gun. It will leave a hole in you the size of a cantaloupe..lol. You have to use some… Read more »
They don’t have to always say it in words…LOL..The Art speaks for itself as it implies he killed him. If he survived, why wasn’t that specific mutant drawn later on the comic among the other mutants that joined Batman’s crusade? The answer…cuz he was shot & died from a heavy caliber machine gun at point blank range. Enough said on that subject.
People get shot and live all the time. In that comic Batman gets shot and lives.He wasn’t shown later with the other mutants in jail because he was in the hospital recovering from his wounds, simplest explanation in the world. And again, it is expressly stated that he DOES NOT KILL ANYONE. You want him to have killed to justify your point. Period.
“People get shot and live all the time”..ROTFLMAO…yeah with a HANDGUN not some 4 foot long machine gun…
Batman has armor, that mutant was in a jean jaket or something like that. Man you must be smoking the good stuff..LOL
1st and foremost, yes, people get shot with rifles and live. I know this first hand. Length of the weapon has little to do with power, Barrel length is for stabilization of the round to increase accuracy over distance. Power is determined by the round itself, powder load, shape of bullet, and weight of bullet. You clearly know next to nothing about that subject so keep laughing, it only makes you look worse. Second, Batman didn’t get shot where he had armor, that’s why he was bleeding all over the place. And he was shot from closer than point blank.… Read more »
That is NOT a rifle dude…LMAO. I’m not even gonna bother with the rest of that because that shows you don’t know guns at all & probably just quickie googled some info. Try a gun like what was in the comic & see if the recipiant walks it off….
Unbelievable. Im done…that is hilarious. Thanks for the laugh…Ignorance is Bliss
You just said a 4ft, long barreled gun is not a rifle. What, pray tell, do you think it is then? It looks like a M249, typically called a Squad Automatic Weapon or SAW, which fires NATO 556 rifle rounds, sounds an awful lot like a rifle to me.
Maybe YOU should try google.
And yeah people live through that. Ask any number of veterans that have done so, since my word is, apparently, not enough.
It’s called a Machine Gun. (M60 to be exact) A machine gun is NOT a rifle…there IS a difference. Are we done putting you in your place now? & yeah, I have worked on instructional manuals for the US Army for their PS Magazine, so yea I do know a thing or two about weapons & ordinance ( as I doubt veterans who got shot were just wearing a jean jacket top on active duty)…it was my job to make sure the soldiers knew how to maintain their equipment, including guns, tanks, radios, etc.Just stop digging your grave. Case Closed.… Read more »
Then you know that the M60 fires a NATO 7.62x 51 rifle round. The same round that the Marine Corp sniper rifle fires. It’s a shoulder fired, grooved barreled weapon that is accurate over distance. And the M60 is effective up o 1200yds. G#$%^&* definition of rifle. You are arguing semantics. It’s a rifle round regardless of what’s throwing it downrange. And the fact is that people can and have survived being shot by that particular round. So quit deflecting, because it doesn’t matter. Batman did not kill anybody in that GN.
It wasn’t semantics it was facts. You were wrong you altered the discussion to fit your perspective. Really sad that you are so desperately changing the conditions of the debate to make it seem you are right . (which you did at least twice) We are not talking about veterans in army flak jackets on the battlefield (thus changes the debate entirely) we were talking about the mutant thug wearing nothing more than a jean jacket being shown clear as day in the comic panel getting shot with blood spatter above his head indicating a headshot/close to it. Drawn clear… Read more »
Either way…Zack’s version of Batman was way more accurate than previous. As for Batman killing, even in Burton’s two, he killed in the second one, twice!(which are cut out in the TV version) To me it’s always seemed ridiculous that he was put in totally threatening situations and not end up in a do or die end result. So far Zack’s Batman has been what Batman should be all along…LETHAL. And he was!! In the JL we got, he got toned down and not put into any environments that required him to react in the same manor. That was missed… Read more »
Nobody here is talking about dark Knight rises, But it made big money because while it had a lot of potholes for a comic book film it was still a well-made film. Editing, cinematography, and direction acting all those things matter also. I will agree though that it’s the least Batman movie of the 3. Again, I will say that the problem is not with Batman being lethal, but why he is lethal and the situations. I’ll give you the warehouse scene, but I still have not had anybody explain to me why it was necessary to kill the guys… Read more »
It wasn’t a head shot you can clearly see the head and there is no hole in it. And it wasn’t a reporter it was the chief of police. And as they actually pursue charges for the murder of the Joker when he didn’t even do it why then would they deny that he killed that mutant? That makes no sense. You are either deluded or trolling at this point. And I didn’t alter anything, it absolutely is semantics because whether you refer to it as a rifle or not, the fact is that it is the same ammunition. My… Read more »
They’ve already more or less laid out their plans and that is to focus on solo films. I’m sure it requires money to finish up the effects as well and WB is not going to foot the bill for it. His comments from this event directed at people who didn’t like the path he took are not doing him any favors. I especially didn’t like how he compared himself to Alan Moore. Moore created new characters to deconstruct the genre. He didn’t use two of the most popular ones. They’re fictional and these movies are about escapism. I don’t have… Read more »
I have zero interest in watching any more of Zack’s/Goyer’s “vision”. I just don’t have the enthusiasm for seeing ANOTHER version of a THIRD movie in essentially a trilogy of convoluted yet dumb and joyless movies I didn’t really like. If it was released and it was on Netflix or something, I’d MAYBE give it a watch on a rainy Sunday afternoon out of sheer curiosity. Far more excited to see Shazam!. I have a sneaky suspicion I’m going to walk out of that film wishing Man Of Steel had been made by the team behind Shazam!. I know it… Read more »
I feel like Goyer doesn’t get the rightfully deserved criticism that Snyder gets. He gets a pass for whatever reason. I will I say that he’s a good idea man, but when left to his own devices he’s very hit or miss… mostly miss. Nolan was there to polish his ideas for the dark knight trilogy, but he was solo on Man of Steel and I was trepidatious to say the least. . As it turned out both screenplays, in my opinion, needed someone to go over it or revise it. Man of steel could have been spectacular had someone… Read more »
Absolutely. Goyer needs as much criticism as Snyder, for sure. He reminds me of the Chris Farley character in SNL who interviews people with questions like “Remember that one time when you did *x*…. that was so cool” but nothing else. He actually had some solid starting point ideas – but not a clue on what to do with them, or to take character traits into account and modify the idea to fit. Sadly, BvS had Terrio – and it didn’t help. Or maybe that’s why the Batman solo parts of the movie are so much better than the rest?… Read more »
Oh I absolutely believe that Terrio was only brought on board to beef up Afflecks part. That’s why he has all the memorable lines while Superman is reduced to very basic dialogue. Honestly Superman didn’t have a single memorable line in BVS and hardly any in MOS for that matter. It’s also evident because the Plot is still very convoluted especially with the bullet plot. I think that Superman being framed could have absolutely been reworked. Everything else in terms of dialogue was clunky EXCEPt For Batman’s lines. I’m still trying to wrap my head how these guys thought newspaper… Read more »
“…..You’re a monster, Zod……and I’m going to stop you.”
Superman, Man Of Steel (2013)
Well… I did say ‘hardly any’ in mos, but given the monologue Zod had just given about having no people, i feel Superman should have at least tried to talk to him for a minute or at least tried to talk him out of his new found mission.
Oh no, absolutely. That’s what I meant by quoting that line. It’s terrible. That line is something I would have made up when I was 6 holding Superman and Zod action figures in my hands. And yeh, it would have been so much better and in character if he had tried to talk Zod down.
I totally agree with everything you said. Hardly any lines and the lines he has are dry and bland. Hardly any development or personality injected into his character at all.
Ah gotcha. That was about as memorable a line as you got from him… and it was totally out of place. Zod gives this emotional speech and instead of Superman showing empathy or understanding… I’m going to destroy you! Cooooool.
“Now look here Zod old chap. I realize we have differences about you destroying this planet but back at my mom’s farm we could talk over milk and cookies.” Ridiculous concept!
Superman: “Your a monster Zod……and I’m going to stop you.” And he did!
Why would the potential dialogue sound like a 1950s Lone Ranger episode?
It doesn’t have to be silly, it can be realistic. What we ended up with sounded like a little kid playing with his toys.
I never heard it represent anything quite kiddie like. But the fight that followed was pretty epic.
Shazam will no doubt be for all ages that will appreciate a degree of camp and adolescents. The critics will undoubtedly go wild as they’ve all proved if they don’t spill there popcorn with laughter then it’s a failure.
I don’t recall anyone denying that Snyder had at least a rough cut together before exiting the project. But what does “it’s done” really mean? I seriously doubt that he had a fully polished film with slick special effects, a full score, and the appropriate ADR.
Something akin to the bootlegs of the 2011 Wonder Woman pilot or 1994 Fantastic Four film likely exists, and would be watchable. But I still doubt WB is sitting on the free money such a completed film would entail.
I really despise all of Zack haters. Snyder successfully captured the true essence that was shown on BvS of the way the public treated Superman. Snyder has been getting the same hate as Superman. You all hate Snyder’s vision because he made Superman “real” in today’s political environment. Face it…a lot of you are “conservative” Superman fans that are still stuck in the past while Snyder’s vision (Superman) is Liberal, plain and simple. You guys hate what you don’t understand. You guys think you all do, but you really don’t. All of you (WB included)want is a “bubble gum flavored”… Read more »
‘Man of Steel’ was brilliant and held a lot of promise. I really, really wanted a direct sequel, but I guess studio interference spoiled everything after that. I like Snyder’s work in general – his visual style really appeals to me, whether we’re talking ‘Watchmen’, ‘Man of Steel’ or ‘Sucker Punch’ (which also received a lot of undeserved hate – I think it’s a great movie). I guess people get personally offended when somebody presents them with a story about one of their favourite characters which is different from the way they see that character in their own minds. I… Read more »
Exactly
If you enjoyed the movies, I’m honestly happy for you. If you got something out of it, even better. But your opinion isn’t any more valid than others, same as mine. I’ve been a fan since basically birth (39 years), and even got married on the anniversary of the street date of “Superman: The Wedding Album.” Nobody with sense would suggest I’m not a true fan. I’m also nobody’s idea of a conservative. When Man Of Steel came out, I was very excited. Drove 2.5 hours to see it in IMAX 3D, even, because I wanted the first time to… Read more »
I couldn’t have stated this any better. Bravo sir.
YYYYYYYYYiiiip. I totally agree. I had almost the exact same experience. Was there at the IMAX cinema 2.5 hours early so I was first in line. Got 20 tickets for the showing and invited 19 pals to come see it. That was how ridiculously important I took it. I seen it as not just a trip to the cinema, but an event! I genuinely thought I was about to witness my new all time favourite movie. Then I walked out with that exact same sick feeling in my stomach that you described. I went to the pub with my friends… Read more »
Yep. Which is why he’s not there anymore, and I think this is his way to keep interest and show he’s still viable to larger projects. Honestly, it’s a good strategy – people will still talk about what he says, and he’s safe because the likelyhood of WB actually addressing it or calling him out are extremely small: they have no reason to, and every reason not to. So in that way, it’s a win-win for “everybody” (not counting those of us who’re just tired of the whole thing, lol). Good on you for staying positive with your friends, though… Read more »
I had a similar experience with both movies. Most of my friends are not superhero movie fans let alone comic book fans so I felt some burden to have to defend BvS even thought I wasn’t enamored by it. I can’t tell you how many Martha jokes I’ve had hurled my way. What defenders of the films keep saying is that elements of the film take ‘common sense’ to understand, but then cite their years of knowledge of the comics and characters they used to fill in the blanks… they don’t understand that not everyone is as well versed as… Read more »
That’s interesting. I took the opposite approach: that, as a fan, I had to share specifically why these movies didn’t work for me, in the hopes that if enough people were talking about those things, WB/Snder/Goyer/whoever could make corrections and change course. I’m not saying I had any expectations that they’d hear what I’m saying over a million others, but at least it was specific and at least it was “out there to be heard,” if that makes any sense. Better than nothing is I guess what my mindset was, lol. I’m fine with a 5-movie arc and all, but… Read more »
Most of the non comic fans I know had already made up their minds about the film and stated they didn’t like it, so I guess I was just telling them not to give up on comic movies as a whole haha. I feel comfortable enough here on this site to really air my grievances because I think it’s more likely that some WB person will read this than eavesdrop on some random schmoe in az haha. I do hope they read these comment sections and that’s one reason why I’m so repetitive about the issues I had with these… Read more »
Ah. Yeah, I can see that on not wanting them to give up. We were both doing that in our respective ways, at least at that point. After BvS, I actually had no interest in seeing JL at all, and it wasn’t until Whedon came on board that I decided to give it a chance – and for the characterization of Superman alone, I’m glad I did. 🙂 It’s interesting what Snyder kinda leaned on people knowing going into the films – he leans a bit on the comics, but also quite a bit on the Donner films’ characterization framework…… Read more »
Found it!! LA Times: May 8th, 2005
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-may-08-ca-batman8-story.html
Ah thanks for finding that article Kal-Elvis!
Yes they’ve leaned very heavily on some of the Donner stuff even lifting some dialogue. I also didn’t care for that on Superman Returns. I was surprised yet again they went with the Christ analogy. We literally just had a scene in SR where he spread his arms out in space and had it again one MOS. This along with his silent demeanor is why I always compare the writing of Superman’s character and dialogue being the same as Neo from the Matrix… Little to no dialogue and portayed as a savior.
In SR they pulled some comparisons to Donner’s. But they did it on purpose because at the time Donner’s Superman was regarded as the standard. I never heard or saw anything that ZS did that I would compare it to regarding Donner’s. In fact totally the opposite.
Well, SR was intended as a pseudo-sequel to Superman II, so that makes sense. But Snyder continued quite a few things that the Donnerverse emphasized in the characterization (such as not being quick to act until the plot calls for it, re: reactive vs proactive) – the largest and my least favorite of which is the blatant Jesus imagery/iconography, a sense of martyrdom. I didn’t like it in the Donnerverse films, and grew to hate it in much of what came after because they tended to take that and run with it to further extremes each time. If I had… Read more »
I disagree. Bye.
I feel this is a bit harsh. It’s also not as black and white as you’re making it appear. I’m not a Snyder hater and I thought MOS, though problematic, was a decent starting point, I just didn’t like where he went from there. Just because we have criticisms for the path taken doesn’t mean we are longing for the past iterations like Reeve. I didn’t like that they went that route for Superman Returns either. I’ve always wanted a modern and serious take on the character, but I just don’t think Zack Snyder and David Goyer were the right… Read more »
“I don’t understand the idea that if we criticize something that we’re not ‘true fans’. Are you not allowed to question your favorite sports teams when they make terrible decisions? Does it make you less of a fan?” Well said. Just because some people aren’t fans of the Snyder take of Superman, doesn’t make them any less of a Superman fan than someone who is. The same can be said about if someone is a fan of the Snyder Superman, that it doesn’t make them any less of a fan of Superman than someone who isn’t. We are all true… Read more »
This guy gets it!
Right on sundevil82!
While I’m not so sure about the Liberal/Conservative aspect, there’s a lot of what you said that would appear to be more accurate than not. Snyder got rode hard and put away wet for making a movie(s) that were planned as a “re-boot” because of the tepid response and direction off Superman Returns.
But I agree 100% that he gave us a Superman that did fit right in with today’s “real” political environment. That’s what he was hired to do, that’s what he accomplished and the end result by some peoples feelings was it was TOO REAL!
I don’t think anyone here has said they were against the aspect of realism in these films. Some of us have gone as far as to say that we are for it. Taking a realistic approach was never the problem.
I didn’t think it was realistic to be honest. Not because of the tone or the subject matter or how they handled the army in it and all that…that’s all fair enough. It was Superman himself that didn’t feel realistic to me. He didn’t feel like a real person or character. Cause he was simply written that way. And if your main character doesn’t feel real, the rest doesn’t matter.
I agree. They gave him little to nothing to say let alone any sort of charisma or personality. Just a bunch of people reacting to him and telling him what he should do. Never once does he stand up for what he believes in or prove his case… that’s essential for the character. It’s fine if you want him to be lost and written in a more serious tone, but you still have to write a character. Just a person standing around scowling isn’t going to do it. That works in a movie like the Matrix with a character like… Read more »
Well I’m sorry I don’t agree with that assessment. There are 3 scenes in MoS that I think didn’t belong but I never felt he was out of character with his emotional state.
[img
[/img]
See….this is a stupid addition to our conversation.
I enjoyed that.
I don’t want to dive into politics here, but I think it’s interesting to suggest this was somehow a “liberal” Superman. The interpretation of the character by Zack and Co. feels much more like a conservative perspective to me.
Aye.
I agree on not wanting to get into it much here, but I’m not sure if I’d go that far. If I were to classify, I’d see it as more neo-liberal (which has some leans on both sides in various ways). Though I admit that’s splitting hairs a bit in comparison to your summation.
I don’t think any alternative cut of ‘Justice League’ could salvage that terrible movie. It was already way too far from what Snyder envisioned when he started out with the DCEU – thanks, no doubt, to WB shoving their oar in. I will always love ‘Man of Steel’ and was really, really hoping we’d see the promise of that film fulfilled in the sequels. But ‘BvS’ felt rushed and full of plot holes, and ‘Justice League’ was a half-hearted joke. The things Snyder says about his original plans seem intriguing, but it’s obvious that most of those ideas were trashed… Read more »
I don’t think an alternative cut, Zack’s original version, would be meant to salvage anything. And regarding the JL we got, aside from “mustache gate”, I fail to see that it was a “terrible movie.” Not what was expected,…..yes, but the overall plot was not really as disjointed as some have commented on.
This is becoming tiresome………………..So now that we know “The Snyder Cut” is real, WB should either make an announcement that they’ll release it or make an announcement that they will not release. Then we can all stop worrying about it. Personally, I’d absolutely LOVE to see “The Snyder Cut.” However, all of this talk about it being real or not, or the studio will to put out the money to finish the special effects, etc., is just becoming tiresome. WB Just release it already OR put out a statement saying you won’t release. Then we can be done with it.
We have for some time kicked this topic around but had NO conformation. It was all rumor. NOW..we have it from the man’s mouth!! So I think at least re-visiting the issue is at the very least something to talk about.
Redcape, you make an excellent point. And I agree with you. Let’s just hope that now that Zach Snyder says his cut of the film exists, the big-wigs at WB will distribute it (even if that means it goes straight to digital download on i-tunes).
If there’s enough of a finished cut, it would not likely be released at the theaters. It would be to purchase on DVD. Fine with me! For the people that already don’t like what Snyder has done, after seeing it, won’t change anything. We’ll be talking about it and the dis-likers will be back on with, “see I told you so, hack Snyder did at again”. Basically it’ll just be repetitive criticisms of what some people didn’t like about MoS and BvS. As much as I wanted a direct sequel to MoS it’s clear that even if they had gone… Read more »
I’ll definitely buy it if it’s ever released. While I disagree with the direction he went in, I still think he should have been able to finish it up. I’m not a Snyder hater. I put just as much blame on Goyer and the execs, I’m definitely not singling him out. I don’t know why goyer gets a pass.
LOL!
And on a side note, this pic makes me think of the guys from “Office Space”.
“And on a side note, this pic makes me think of the guys from “Office Space”.”
“ I believe you have my stapler.”
LOL!
To which my first thought, combined with Hollywood’s gif, is:
“If that guy in the pic wants to get a stapler out of that horse, he might be going about it the wrong way…” lol
I don’t think it’s dead yet!!!
LOL!
It might be gravitational movement from all the hitting, at this point. :p
I really miss the thumbs up feature right now…
I don’t miss it. By taking away the thumbs up thumbs down feature, it prevents cyber bullying.
This will probably an active comment section, and I truly love and respect everyone’s opinion.. For the record, I am mixed on the “zack Snyder” issue.. I appreciate the beauty in his movies, and I still think BvS is a bit of a masterpiece, but at the same time, think it was the worst decision ever made, and that If “I was in charge” I would never have given the green light to this movie.. I also concede, that my appreciation of the movie involves decades of emotional investment in the characters, and understanding of the source material, and specific… Read more »
‘I also concede, that my appreciation of the movie involves decades of emotional investment in the characters, and understanding of the source material, and specific comic books, and that I filled in sooooo many blanks for myself (something I had to explain to the embittered non-comic friends I dragged out to the move)…’ I have been beating this drum for awhile now. My love of the characters is what makes me give the film any good will. Snyder and Goyer relies on all the people watching to fill in the blanks for themselves and, while that is fine for us… Read more »
Yup.
Good points for sure and I agree with your BvS opinion!! But I for one don’t think that a competent version of Snyder’s JL would do anything to erase the mistakes that we’ve been subjected to, ei, no MoS sequel. But in light of how I thought both MoS and BvS were, just seeing a continuation of Snyder’s JL version, I think if nothing more is somewhat exciting. And I say that because we apparently have nothing Superman in the works. Kind of reminds me of when Donner’s Superman2 was cobbled together. It was, at least for me exciting to… Read more »
Taking my own bias out of the discussion for a moment and looking at possibilities, I think you’re probably looking at about as long of a wait as the Donner cut was. Maybe not quite that bad, but about 10 years or so after JL at best. The main reason why is just business, imo. WB spent a large sum of money just two years ago to half-balance what was (for them, anyway) a flop (for the record, I’d love to fail that richly, but anyway.. lol) and both that bruise and money are fresh yet. They’re still trying to… Read more »
“ BUT my only reason to post, is to give another vote to the “sir, you are causing a disturbance, please leave now.” vote.“ For a second you made me think of the Star Wars line” there is a great disturbance in the force.” Lol. Yeah,I also don’t understand why he keeps talking about it SuperDoc MD. It seems to me every few months he brings up his cut of Justice League again. I just feel like this whole Snyder Justice league cut topic that Zack is promoting is getting old. I mean ok, I get it. There is an… Read more »
That’s odd. My previous comment didn’t go where I wanted it to go.
A lot of you make good and valid points. I’m proud to be a member of this site with others who are as passionate as I am when it comes to Superman…our number one hero. So Snyder has confirmed that his cut exists. It really took him long to shed a light on the matter whether it does or not. I’d very much like to be the next guy who wishes that it would be released sometime soon. Maybe yay maybe nay. With the shake up in management at WB at the moment, it depends on the new head honcho… Read more »
I’m sure we’d get a different story line. When ZS started on the JL was originally planned as a two part’er. So he starts things rolling then at some time gets told to make it a one part stand alone movie. Well who re-writes the script to accommodate that decision? Then while finishing up , he gets yanked from the whole project. What he had done was apparently not wanted or viewed as a complete opposite to what they,..the WB experts wanted. So they bring in JossW and he re-shoots all kinds of scenes. Who wrote those re-shot scenes? My… Read more »
Ha almost forgot about the 2 parter announcement. It would have been interesting to watch a thing that was supposed to be and ended up as the thing that shall not be due to studio meddling. Instead we got a thing that was supposed to be…something. It was part of the original line-up when announced way back in 2013-2014 along with other projects…so much for sticking to their guns. I was not all satisfied with a one parter. The hype inside of me waned down a bit…as well as my disappointment!!! Oh man that scene with Superman being interviewed by… Read more »
Yeah, there’s a lot that we don’t know. For instance, at what point in production was the script changed, and at what point was it finished? The fact that they didn’t seem to lose much time in the grand scheme of things tells me that it wasn’t a full re-write, but a latter-half/quarter/etc change. That way they can film the stuff in the early parts of the movie and leave the rest to be filmed after it’s changed. From a business standpoint, that’s the only way I see that happening. I’m also not sure how different the Snyder cut will… Read more »
Weren’t there reports at some point stating that Snyder’s version was unwatchable? Or was that just another excuse to replace him? I don’t know how reliable accounts from execs are since they supposedly gave BvS standing ovations.
There were, but I wonder what they mean by that. The spin was definitely that it wasn’t good enough. There’s “unwatchable” from a taste perspective, and “unwatchable” from a “still needs xyz to be finished” perspective. My guess is that the latter was spun to mean the former because the press likes controversy.
Man we have been fighting this fight on this page over Zack for years, for the sake of our sanity I hope they just don’t release and let it die, not because I didn’t enjoy MOS and BvS the extended edition, cause I thoroughly did, I just think it is time to let his vision go and fall to the wayside because it just wasn’t truly successful the way WB thought it could be, now hopefully with that guy stepping down we can finally get the DCEU we deserve, with the greatest hero the world has ever known
I would agree with you as long as his version is NOT a completed movie. No one wants to see a bunch of arrant scenes that don’t flow together with any kind of continuity. BUT….he is not saying that. “It’s done”….per ZS. So from that stand point there IS what,…. a completed movie just sitting in a vault? Maybe I’m a glutton for punishment, but I for one need to see it. Then I will put this to bed.
https://images.app.goo.gl/U2mw2HFaPY6pa24G6
I can’t blame Snyder for trolling at this point. WB screwed the guy over good every step of the way. My opinions on this are clear: if WB decides they want to put in the money and the effort to release what exists (ala SII: Donner Cut), I’m definitely interested in it. There are many reasons I hate the Justice League we got, but the lack of a unified tone and vision with what came before is the thing that irks me the most. No cut of Justice League will be good, but I’d much rather have the one that… Read more »
Yep….totally agree! Even if it’s not a better end result. But your statement of it being at least in line with MoS and BvS is all I would expect to see. If better then OK if worse then OK as well.
And why exactly are we even trusting Zack’s word on this? This is a man that changes his story with the wind and continues to employ teasing techniques to keep fans engaged for unknown reasons. Like it was his decision to remove the trunks from the costume (it wasn’t), or that his Superman was not going to be part of Justice League(which changed or never was the plan), or that the open pod in MOS was actually something more(uh, what?), or that kryptonite was never to be introduced into the MOS universe (how’s that workin’ out?)… Bottom line: He doesn’t… Read more »
Exactly. I remember at the comic con before the movie came out he emphatically not only said that Batman couldn’t beat Superman ‘cmon..’ were his exact words, he also said that they had to get Superman’s house In Order before they delved into any Justice League type stuff. His house never got in order I guess. I’m sure it was only supposed to be a Superman trilogy originally but when MOS didn’t pull in Avengers numbers (an unrealistic expectation from foolish executives) they panicked and forced him to throw their cash cow Batman inthere. Lo and behold they found out,… Read more »
Wow! 104 comments! This has to be a new record.
Ha ha.
It’s been awhile since we’ve cracked 100 that’s for sure haha
It’s good to have different opinions and discussions. It shows how passionate and how caring us fans when it comes to our favourite big Blue boyscout.
Exactly Kal-Ed!
I totally agree with you.
Well we can all analyze these movies(any of them including Marvel crap-o-la) to death. Pick them apart based off of how they don’t appeal to us individually. Mistakes..yes, questionable scenes..yes as well. I’ve got no doubt that Snyder didn’t sit down and watch all previous attempts with Superman. His job was to create the opposite of what we’ve either got accustomed to or seen before. A lot of people feel it went too far in the opposite direction. Maybe….but I still want to see his Justice League!!
123 comments on this Superman comment section! Let’s see if we can get to 130!
Ha ha!
When you get down to it regarding what Zack’s saying, we still don’t have one single bit of story line or relatable information regarding his JL. All he says is… “it’s done.” We’re back at square one and still have absolutely…..nothing!
I want to see an all-Joss Whedon version of Justice League. That’s in WB’s hands too, right?
I would guess no to that. He was brought in to piece together what he could from Zack’s story, add re-shoots and make it a one and done. And that was all at the expense of just finishing it and dumping it on the market.
I have today off, and went to see DC Captain Marvel (I’ll be cold, and dead in my grave before I call him “Shazam”!). It had some pretty cute gags hinting at the future of the JL…
Just got back from it and thought t was a lot of fun! I enjoyed all the Easter eggs! And did you notice a very subtle JL:Mortal reference??
Other than D.J. Cotrona playing an important role (I’m trying to keep unsolicited spoilers at Bay), I didn’t notice much.
Adam Brody who was supposed to be the Flash in JLM as well.. not sure if that was intentional or not, but I found it amusing!
I’d forgotten about Brody’s connection…
We say.. “who cares?”
Who’s we and who cares about what?
You seriously making me explain this?
We = me in the 3rd person, and you KNOW what I’m talking about. It’s the subject of the whole thread. And just in case you missed the subtext, I don’t give a **** about the Snyder cut.
Maybe they’ll release it along with the David Ayer Suicide Squad cut.
I read that Suicide Squad will be a total re-boot as well.
I thought so too, but it looks like they’re resigning a lot of the actors from the first minus Will Smith. So far we have Waller, Boomerang and Flagg. Elba was supposedly replacing will Smith’s deadshot, but that was debunked and I think harley May come back as well. I loved most of the characters and portrayals, just the actual film was a mess, but what do you expect when Tsujihara lets a trailer company cut his movie.