Did The CW Disrespect Superman on “Elseworlds”? (The S Files)

Steve Younis gives his opinion on how Superman was handled on The CW’s “Elseworlds” crossover event in this new Superman Homepage feature: “The S Files”.

The S Files
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gr8one
Member
gr8one

They absolutely disrespected Superman in the crossover. The BBQ in his fortress while wearing the suit when it was just him and that terrible Lois (Tulloch was a bad fit. One of the worst Loises yet. But that’s a complaint for another time. ) was rediculous. And why does it seem that Tyler is getting worse as this goes along? Is it just the writing? I know the show is called Supergirl and it’s her time in the spotlight but they misused the Superman character down to just a plot device. It’s worse than what happened on the JLA animated… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

Nailed it. Couldn’t agree more. And yes….one of the most out of place Lois’s I’ve ever seen. Good thing there’s 40 more worlds to find the proper one.(yea..right) Best thing to do at this point is to keep him off any further episodes.

victor4782
Member
victor4782

Well said.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I loved what they did in part 1 for Superman. He flew in and helped stop Amazo. He was even told that they couldn’t have been able to stop Amazo without his help………. But here’s the big problem, and I really really really hate to say this, but they did disrespect him in part 2. The “ The world doesn’t need Superman” quote and the” you’re stronger than me Kara” quote was very disrespectful to Superman. I blame the writers for those inexcusable lines. I don’t blame Tyler though. He had no control on what he said as Superman. Yes… Read more »

gr8one
Member
gr8one

I can completely agree with you on Taylor being only able to do what the writers give him. Same can be said with Cavill. I do disagree with Lois though. Sorry. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

“I can completely agree with you on Taylor being only able to do what the writers give him. Same can be said with Cavill. I do disagree with Lois though. Sorry. Different strokes for different folks I guess.“
We may have different points of views, but I can respect that. We agree to disagree.

butchmoore
Member
butchmoore

We’re quick to blame the writers for what we don’t like our favorite characters to say and do. I don’t judge dialog by “what they made him say”, but rather would the character use these words. What I saw was one of the most personal moments ever presented in the Superman chronicles. It was obviously a serious decision to hang up his cape to start a family. I heard a beautiful conversation of inclusion…bringing Kara into what is his new family. He knew that leaving Earth without a Superman is serious, but he had the faith and trust in Kara… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I understand that you don’t judge the writers, and it also makes sense to go by what Superman would say in the comics, but a lot of people do feel differently about it. Don’t get me wrong, I do think that having Superman act and behave like he would in the comics is one of the best ways for an actor to act as Superman, but when writers write in dialogue that’s out of character for Superman, then fans of Superman I believe have a right to complain. Yes I do agree that he was giving Kara a pep talk… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

The aspect of him starting a family was just one of the stupid scenes throughout the crossover. Totally ridiculous.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I get you don’t like this version, but I do.

MattComics
Member
MattComics

There is not a single damn thing that is ridiculous about Superman starting a family. Family has been a constant theme in Superman stories and I’d pressed to think of any superhero who would make a better father. It’s also a worthy thing to explore if we’re following a version of the character who is at a later point in his life from what we usually see and that’s clearly a time in which the Supergirl series takes place.

redcape
Member
redcape

Maybe on what ever number of the revolving earths that you prefer. Other than that it’s totally ridiculous. They’ve explored enough versions of this character. And on this show they’ve all for the most part been disasters!!

gr8one
Member
gr8one

It’s too bad with what should be a touching moment was sullied by that insanely horrible BBQ scene. Grilling in his suit? Creating a perfectly cut and sized diamond from a charcoal brickette. I get I was a nod to Superman III (I hope) but in no way could charcoal have enough carbon. At least Reeve used an actual piece of coal. Suspension of belief is earned and that scene was too ridiculous all around for that to happen. IMO that is the type of scene that disrespects the character. And the bad Margot Kidder impression didn’t help.

J.
Member

I have to admit I disagree with the point that Mr. Younis is making with regards to Superman being disrespected. For me, it comes down to intent. At the end of the day, Clark and Lois have decided to go back to Argo so that she can give birth safely. It’s a big decision. As such, he knows he has to leave Kara with the massive responsibility of looking after the entire planet. He even feels that it’s selfish of him to do so (a totally rational response). So he has the very human reaction in which he tells Kara… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Instead of Superman saying “ the world doesn’t need Superman” he could have said” I know earth will be safe in your hands Kara. There’s no one else that I would trust to protect our home while I’m away” . If he had said that, then it would show that he acknowledges Kara’s ability to protect earth without knocking down his own worth as a hero. He has super hearing, so for Superman to say “ the world doesn’t need Superman” makes no sense since he would then be ignoring the cries for help. And Superman doesn’t ignore a cry… Read more »

gr8one
Member
gr8one

I can get behind the idea that the world will be in greats in his absence but here’s the problem. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see the show having her protect the globe. I don’t even see her filling in for a Supermanless Metropolis. Maybe it’s there that she has to deal with Crier’s Lex but I’m doubtful she will leave her city.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I don’t know about Metropolis, I guess it’s something that we will have to wait and see how they explain it on the show.

gr8one
Member
gr8one

If they even do. Sometimes writers work with blinders on and forget their own writing lol

andramus
Member
andramus

As far as I’m concerned Superman propping Kara up and putting himself down doesn’t really mean anything. If he tells Kara she’s stronger than him he’s just giving her a pep talk. Even if he really means it it’s just because he’s a fairly humble and modest guy who doesn’t think too highly of himself. He’s the kind of guy who everyone else thinks is the world’s greatest hero except for him. Also saying the world doesn’t need him because Kara is there is just another way of saying that he trusts her to take care of the place while… Read more »

MattComics
Member
MattComics

I’m generally very supportive of the show wanting to lift up its female characters and in a show called Supergirl why the hell wouldn’t you? But I think we’re having a collision of many writers habit to use being able to pummel Superman as a means to establish the threat (which I think is the case in his fight with Super-Deegan) and that is something being compounded with this odd “you’re better than me” “the world doesn’t need me” thing that they feel is necessary in his dialog with Kara. Both problems IMO stem from the same source and it… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Exactly MattComics.

redcape
Member
redcape

Lois being pregnant was about as idiotic as several other scenes. Should NEVER have been part of the story.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

As I said before, I get it. You don’t like this version. But I do

Clark_Jo
Member
Clark_Jo

I don’t know about “disrespected” but they made him job to her.
She’s beaten him up, characters that beat up Superman are handled by Supergirl and he states he’s not needed anymore.
His importance is negligible, he’s not needed, he’s just a side character that shows up to try and lend a hand but is overshadowed and realizes his presence wasn’t necessary.

I call him Jabronie Superman on the CW. Because that’s what they made him a jabronie.

Randall
Member
Randall

This was pretty well covered in the 3rd episode’s review thread. The first episode was an excellent execution, the 3rd was fine up until the very end where it went off a cliff on fire. Having Clark walk away due to fear of loss was nothing short of moronic in my opinion. Acting like being Superman was just something that he was doing while he had some free time. MEANWHILE…apparently, Bruce Wayne is torn away from Gotham kicking and screaming. Feeling some need to declare, yet again, that Kara is “stronger” was off putting. From a character standpoint it’s pointless.… Read more »

MattComics
Member
MattComics

There’s a lot of weird dialog choices in this thing.

BklynBiker
Guest
BklynBiker

This is Supergirl’s show, and the writers do need to make sure Superman doesn’t over shadow her. They could do that without making Superman look weak, but they took the lazy way out and did exactly that, and it shows the writers lack confidence in their own character. Elseworlds part 3 was gratuitous in trying to make Superman look weak and irrelevant. It wasn’t any one line or action, but a culmination: First was Kara’s accusation to Deegan that he was a coward for not making himself look like her. Then there was the fight between Superman and Deegan-Superman. The… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I do agree about the mistakes that they made, however they did do some good with Superman in that episode. Three things come to my mind. Firstly, Superman did Save Kara and Alex from “Super Deegan ‘s” heat vision. Second, Superman was only one to be able to open the magic book. Supergirl wasn’t able to, so she needed her cousin. Lastly, Superman saved Lois from falling. He could have knocked out “Super Deegan”, but in doing so Lois wouldn’t have survived. So I’m glad that they showed that Superman is more concerned about protecting innocent life over defeating a… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

Yep….keep him off!! Can you imagine how they’d handle his role in a weekly series?? Talk about deplorable.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Well others feel differently about it.

redcape
Member
redcape

Yep…correct on all counts!! (you forgot how utterly stupid the pregnancy angle was)

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Redcape that’s not my opinion. Please let me have my own opinion. I don’t mean to sound mean, and I don’t want any debates. So again I respectfully say let’s just agree to disagree, and have a good weekend.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Again I’m sorry if I came off as mean. That’s not my intention. Here’s another positive vote from me to you. Have a good weekend redcape.

MattComics
Member
MattComics

I always thought it would be really cool to see Cisco’s reaction to Superman. He just seemed indifferent and the “favorite Kryptoinan” thing was just weird.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Cisco’s ” favorite Kryptonian” quote was kind of awkward.

afriend
Member
afriend

The Superman-specific arc was Geoff Johns’d (strong start, interesting ideas, and a weak finish; often with a setup for the next big event-I will make this a thing!) But the ending, to me at least, felt like pushback to the vocal fans who have been clamoring for a Hoechlin-led Superman series. His “hanging up the cape for a while” seems like the CW powers that be saying they will focus on Supergirl for the time being and we shouldn’t get our hopes up. Then again, because I pray to St. Jude (patron saint of lost causes) daily; the next big… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

The “for a while” part of that conversation, does lead me to believe that we will see Superman again. It may not be for a while. And there’s no telling when he’ll be back. And who knows if he will get a series, but I do believe that we’ve haven’t seen the last of this version of the man of steel. I look forward to seeing this Superman and Lois again in the not to distant future

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I think that it’s a good that the Superman fan community is talking about this. I believe that if enough people talk about it, then maybe they will bring back Tyler’s Superman and rectify the problems that were in the crossover by having Superman in a much more prominent role in future episodes.

gr8one
Member
gr8one

Maybe. Maybe not. For every fan that likes this version of Tyler’s Superman there’s probably one that hopes for a retcon. ie Crisis on Infinite Earths. I’m leaning that way. I was initially right in Tyler corner and with every appearance he started losing me. I’m not necessarily against his portrayal like I am with Lois but it’s on shaky ground. Who knows, maybe there’s another earth with a stronger SuperTyler with a better Lois lol

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Well with the multiverse theme that they have going for their shows I guess anything is possible. Maybe we will see a different version of Tyler’s Superman next year. And they now have established more than one actor can play the same superhero. I mean they did bring back Shipp’s Flash from a different multiverse. Who knows? Maybe there’s a chance of seeing past actors return for the crisis episodes next year as different versions of Superman. Dean Cain, Tom Welling, Brandon Routh, Gerard Christopher. They could all appear as different Supermen from alternate reality’s. That would be so awesome… Read more »

afriend
Member
afriend

Interesting ideas. Though no love for John Newton?! At least he’s shown his willingness to return with the Superman Classic shorts.
I saw Tom Welling at a convention back in September (Michael Rosenbaum too, if you want to see something funny look up their Rose City Comic Con panel on YouTube). While being otherwise diplomatic in his declining to return, he did show an interest in the idea of an animated Smallville follow-up series.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I guess Newton could also be a part of the episode. I just figured that his version and Christopher’s were the same. But you do bring up a good point. Was the rose city comic con panel the one where Rosenbaum talked about his time in a flight harness for his possessed Zod scene? That was a funny video. Michael has a good sense of humor.

afriend
Member
afriend

I honestly don’t recall him talking about it there (he was too busy playing jokes on the sign language interpreters), but I’ve heard his stories before.

gr8one
Member
gr8one

Seeing all of them would pretty much blow this site up

sman1938
Member
sman1938

I just took some time to look at the Nielsen ratings and the writers may actually have reason to fear Superman overshadowing their main character. With the exception of one of the crossover events, since Supergirl came to the CW the most watched episode was the season 2 premier which had a big media push that they were introducing Superman. And the overall positive reaction to Tyler’s portrayal and not just by Superman fans could have the staff for Supergirl feeling the need to make Supergirl look a little better when her truly more popular (and I don’t mean in… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Yes he is.

The ratings I believe also shows that there’s an interest in a Superman tv series.

redcape
Member
redcape

Sorry spidey…. but IMO, NOT a series with this kind of Superman.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Well that’s your opinion. And at least that’s one thing we can agree on, that being your own opinion. In my own opinion, and I say my own opinion because no one speaks for me but me, this version of Superman should be brought back soon and he should have his own show. Again as I said it’s my own opinion. And please stop trying to start a debate with me. I’m not really interested.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I’m sorry if I came off as harsh in my last comment Redcape. It’s just that I’ve been trying really really hard to stay away from any kind of debates.
How about we just agree to disagree? No hard feelings.

redcape
Member
redcape

You weren’t harsh spidey. Absolutely no problem!!

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Thank you for understanding. Have a good weekend redcape.

s-shield
Member
s-shield

I’m really surprised anyone would say they disrespected him. I mean, I thought they did a good job showcasing the character when he’s just a guest-star in other people’s shows. What did people want? For Superman to solve all the problems while the other characters just stood there and applauded? I think they gave him plenty of great moments, including making him the only one capable of restoring reality with the Book of Destiny. Add on to that the engagement and pregnancy stuff, it was some of my favorite Superman moments in ever, lol.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Exactly! The book of destiny scene is one of the scenes I mentioned in another comment I made. I’m so glad that I’m not the only one who has pointed that out.

MattComics
Member
MattComics

“For Superman to solve all the problems while the other characters just stood there and applauded?”

I don’t think any rational Superman fan is asking for that so much as expressing concern and frustration with the writers trying just waaaaay too hard to avoid some version of that scenario in either the fights or his interactions with other heroes.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I wonder if the writers ever considered the possibility of negative reactions to the script.

redcape
Member
redcape

That’s almost a laughable question. Hell yes they’ve been disrespecting Superman. But not entirely the person but more so the role as Superman. The very first time his character was on the show, they did pretty well. But his role after that has been manipulated to prop up aspects of the show in general by manipulating him into a total second fiddle and border-lining on adolescent comedic relief. They’re starting to cross a line at this point. A line that shouldn’t be crossed. You mark my words. If they keep this up it’s going to end poorly, VERY POORLY.

gr8one
Member
gr8one

Very reminiscent of the timmverse JLAU version (Not S:TAS or JL those were better). He was always either Beaten up at the start,made to look weak, or made into an evil/ out of control version of himself

MattComics
Member
MattComics

As I recall he started as punching bag in JL and then around the time of his fight with Darkseid they moved to him having a hair-trigger temper as if that was a way to make up for it (also gave them a convenient excuse to have Batman and/or other superheroes scold him.) Sucks to because a lot of other things in that series were awesome. I like those shows but because of how they handle Superman I have a hard time loving them. IMO JL and JLU were really hurt (not to mention other things Timm has worked on)… Read more »

gr8one
Member
gr8one

I agree. Especially regarding Dini. And yet despite all that I still loved Superman in those shows LoL.

redcape
Member
redcape

You’re right about that MattC. I have that complete box set of all the seasons. It was a couple of months ago I watched season one and two and I had totally forgotten how little Superman’s present actually was in the series. When you get a character as BIG as Superman it’s going to be hard on all accounts to have him on a level of seeing his life on an everyday scale. To me it’s distracting and they’re going to have to make him less “able”. Because in the back of all our minds we want him to show… Read more »

MattComics
Member
MattComics

I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with Superman having to struggle in a fight but he can’t just be a ping-pong ball getting knocked around until the cavalry arrives. Let him give as good as he gets. To use wrestling terms make it a real match instead of a squash (like the fight with Super-Deegan) and have him get some clean wins. I think a weekly tv series would do fine and usually in his own show there wouldn’t be a bunch of other heroes the writers would feel compelled to over-compensate for. Also I would hope that for… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

MattC,…..I pretty much agree with what you’re saying. But I think we can also agree that the CW in general has taken all the DC characters and done them differently than what we’ve been used to or how we’ve come to recognize them. But for me at least,.. that’s why I don’t want him on a CW series. Look what they’ve done TO HIM already. They will no doubt take the same path and we would only see him being put into similar situations revolving around daily activities. It will in the end trivialize him and quite possibly end his… Read more »

MattComics
Member
MattComics

Really not sure what you mean by “revolving around daily activities” ..an episode where the main plot is going to the DMV? I will say that superhero stories have always shown more aspects of their lives than just the big fights. We spend a little time with them as people being people before we see them go on their adventures and doing what they do as heroes. It’s part of what makes them characters and not just combat avatars. It can’t just all be about explosions, punching, and brooding on top of a skyscraper. Besides, the Rebirth comics showed that… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Well it’s that time of week again where I give out positive votes to all my fellow Superman fans. Happy Happy Friday everyone! Even if I don’t agree with a comment, I will still vote up for it, because everyone should feel good on Friday.

KElCKentSuperman
Member
KElCKentSuperman

Could not agree more.