Superman & Lois – Ampersand & Sons Podcast (Episode 13)

Ampersand & Sons Podcast

The “Superman & Lois” – Ampersand & Sons Podcast (hosted by Neal Bailey and Julian Finn) is a regular podcast covering each episode of the “Superman & Lois” TV series airing on The CW.

Julian asks Neal a series of questions to force Neal to ad lib justifications for the flaws in this week’s Superman & Lois, resulting in some hilarious scenarios and far more lost brain cells. Milo explains a dead socket. Randy Macho Hulk Edge makes yet another lamentable but brief appearance.

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andramus
June 19, 2021 8:11 am

It’s interesting that at the start of your podcast you brought up Jimmy Olsen being black in the Supergirl TV series as a precedent that means he should be allowed to be black in other media. I say it’s interesting because I’m going to use the same precedent to justify and explain the depiction of Superman’s Solar Flare power in ‘Superman & Lois’. In the comics Superman’s Solar Flare was described as him releasing all the the solar energy stored in the cells of his body at once. It was a depicted as an explosive release of energy in all… Read more »

Superman2878
June 19, 2021 11:34 am
Reply to  andramus

That’s an awesome show. I’m a big fan of My Hero Academia. 🙂

neal bailey
Admin
June 19, 2021 1:21 pm
Reply to  andramus

I’m not sure I was implying what you think I was about the Jimmy Olsen thing, but I do appreciate the info about the solar flare being used before, and that it’s appeared in previous incarnations, and that it was heat-vision based. I get the trope (with Academia), and the idea of him having JUST ENOUGH POWER isn’t what bugs me, so much as how slipshod the show was at defining the parameters of the situation, when S and L goes to such extraordinary lengths to set expectations in other places where it could show, rather than tell. As for… Read more »

andramus
June 19, 2021 2:49 pm
Reply to  neal bailey

Maybe I misunderstood but it felt like you were using a case of established precedent to buttress your position that it’s OK for Jimmy to be black. I didn’t think that was the sole pillar supporting your position but it did feel like you were saying “if it’s been done before then why not again?” I’d already planned to bring up the Supergirl precedent for the Solar Flare so I just thought it was a funny coincidence that you brought up a precedent from the same series. I have mixed views on these matters. I think lived experience shapes identity… Read more »

neal bailey
Admin
June 19, 2021 3:54 pm
Reply to  andramus

Well, I’d also use the precedent “It’s been done before, it can be done again,” generally, situation dependent. And it’s entirely possible I was just saying it poorly, I was (and am) constantly exhausted from hard work and Covid isolation of late. My intention was to be like “Jimmy’s been black for six years and the world clearly didn’t end, they’re mad again now? How arbitrary is that?” Because it seems very arbitrary and weird to me, like, I don’t get the kneejerk DIVERSITY BAD thing, and it seems to have an insidious undercurrent to me. I agree with you… Read more »

andramus
June 20, 2021 7:54 am
Reply to  neal bailey

Neal, To be honest every time I read your reviews or listen to your podcast and you diss and/or belittle Zack Snyder’s work, his character and the fans of his work it gets my back up. I know taste is subjective and for the most part I’ve given up arguing with people about why they should appreciate something that I appreciate. I think what gets to me when people diss the things I like is when they use hyperbole, broad and sweeping generalisations along with massive oversimplifications to express their disdain. On top of that they cast aspersions on the… Read more »

neal bailey
Admin
June 20, 2021 1:36 pm
Reply to  andramus

So, to be clear, you haven’t offended me and this is a kind intellectual conversation, so far as I can tell. At least on your end. 🙂 The clear difference between you and Redcape is intention. It’s clear that you (and most) want to have a productive discussion, and in start contrast, their behavior and commenting is so consistently antagonistic to others that any reasonable person would not react with discussion, but conflict. At least of late. Just a few weeks back, his reaction to the Krypto cartoon was to baldly assert that they’d make the dog gay for ratings.… Read more »

andramus
June 20, 2021 3:07 pm
Reply to  neal bailey

To be fair I said you sometimes sound like an echo chamber. Actually that was in reference to your and Julian’s opinions of both Superman & Lois and Zack Snyder’s work. I agree that for lack of a better term Julian comes off as the more moderate of the two of you. As far as Zack Snyder’s Justice League Julian might have been more lenient than you but his continual refrain seemed to be “It’s not a good movie but…”. I just thought it would have been nice to have one person on your podcast who actually thought it was… Read more »

neal bailey
Admin
June 20, 2021 3:50 pm
Reply to  andramus

For me, it depends on the issue. Seeing both sides of some issues is inherently… yeesh.

But on this one, we agree. And my offer stands. Even if you don’t want to yak on the podcast, feel free to write a “For the air” perspective, and we’ll read it, and be kind to it. Honest offer.

andramus
June 20, 2021 3:26 pm
Reply to  neal bailey

By the way did you ever finish watching Jupiter’s Legacy? I was waiting to hear you and Julian have a proper discussion about it once you had finished it. It felt like you and I were the only two people who liked it. One of the criticisms I saw levelled against it was that the premise had already been done before and better recently with The Boys and Invincible being wheeled out as prime examples. As far as The Boys goes the I think the premises are nothing alike so it’s apples and oranges. Invincible is a bit closer in… Read more »

neal bailey
Admin
June 20, 2021 3:49 pm
Reply to  andramus

I want to read the comic, but I’m waiting for it to ideally go on sale on Comixology. The trades are fairly pricey. I did finish it, and I enjoyed it for at least one watch. I have to watch The Boys and Invincible before I can comment, but I’m sure I will soon. It’s been a real struggle to watch anything lately, honestly. Two full days a week are eaten up with Superman and Lois and the review and podcast, and most of the rest of the time is novels and comics and lettering and raising a child and… Read more »

andramus
June 20, 2021 4:13 pm
Reply to  neal bailey

It’s hard to say. I borrowed the trades or whatever they’re called from my local library which has an extensive collection of graphic novels so I didn’t have to pay to read it. Selfishly I’d like you to buy it so I could hear what you think about it and how it compares to the TV series. I don’t have any immediate plans to buy the issues to keep. My best suggestion is to only buy the series with the likely intention of reading it once in order to satisfy your curiosity. So don’t spend more than you feel that… Read more »

neal bailey
Admin
June 20, 2021 4:20 pm
Reply to  andramus

The good thing is, I’m GONNA read it, it just depends on when I cave and buy. So I will yak about it, some time, in the near future. This’ll probably be the straw that breaks the cheapo’s back, and spur me to it.

Superman2878
June 19, 2021 11:37 am

Wishing Neal Bailey and Julian Finn and their podcast team a peaceful and Happy Father’s Day. 🙂

neal bailey
Admin
June 19, 2021 1:22 pm
Reply to  Superman2878

Thanks! Very kind of you.

andramus
June 20, 2021 10:14 am

A lot of people talk about show don’t tell but the problem with that often seems to be that people don’t catch on to what they’re being shown. Or what is being shown comes across as too ambiguous without a line or two of dialogue to pin it down. I could be totally wrong about this but I think I know why the voice distortion was being used in this episode. It was an aural cue to convey that the original consciousness still existed within the host body. Lar(n)a explained that it takes time for the original host consciousness to… Read more »

neal bailey
Admin
June 20, 2021 1:37 pm
Reply to  andramus

This is a VERY good point. She doesn’t have modulation. I think you’re right.

andramus
June 20, 2021 3:48 pm
Reply to  neal bailey

Do you have any thoughts on my contention that showing without telling can be problematic?

I used the word ambiguous but that’s more about uncertainty after the fact. You pick up on the intention but you’re not sure you have the correct interpretation.

Another issue is that showing without telling can be too subtle and people just miss it completely.

Judging by your reply you seem to think I hit the nail on the head with my interpretation of the meaning behind the vocal distortion. However you didn’t pick up on that yourself when watching the episode.

neal bailey
Admin
June 20, 2021 8:40 pm
Reply to  andramus

Speaking from twenty full years of fiction writing experience, I can say with authority that there are very, very few situations where telling is better than showing. Even the ones where you MUST tell (the introduction of a character’s name for the first time, for example), I prefer to do quietly, and to the side. Generally speaking, it’s FAR better to trust the audience to be smart, and have all the answers be there, than it is to hold their hand and treat them like they’re stupid. They sense the condescension. Plus, even if they didn’t, it’s just bad storytelling.… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Neal Bailey
andramus
June 20, 2021 10:43 am

My biggest bugbear with this episode was Lar(n)a linking the Kryptonian conciousness with the Kryptonian superpowers. She basically said that if they removed the Kryptonian consciousnesses from the human hosts the superpowers would gradually dissipate over time. Which does explain why all the human hosts didn’t die when they fell to the ground. Up until this point everything we have been shown and told points to the transfer of consciousness and granting of superpowers as being separate processes. Even if they were performed at the same time the powers come from X-Kryptonite and the Kryptonian consciousness comes from the Eradicator.… Read more »

neal bailey
Admin
June 20, 2021 1:41 pm
Reply to  andramus

I think it’d be a REALLY cool story to explore what Kyle’s relationship to alcohol would be, if he were chemically, but not mentally cured. One thing folks who have been around alcoholic know, even sober, they’re still alcoholics, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen that story written. Hell, now I’m getting ideas for novel stuff. Thanks. That’s one of the neat things that’s never (I think) really been explained so well in the DCU, why humans and Kryptonians are pretty much identical, and most species are close. I know Star Trek went to great pains to talk about… Read more »