Kryptonian Council
Kryptonian Council
The Staff of the Superman Homepage Speak Out
[Date: May 2006]Hey, folks! Welcome to the Kryptonian Council! This is a free-form discussion where I and members of the Superman Homepage writing team will be talking freely about issues that affect the site and Superman in general. It's a little like Radio KAL, only it's more free-form. You'll find typos, off the cuff remarks. It's the website at its rawest, and it's supposed to be that way. Everything with a grain of salt, and humor, all the while confronting the issues of concern to a Superman fan. It's a way to extend the idea behind Radio KAL to multiple people, without having a bunch of people talking over each other, and we hope to make it a regular fixture here at the Superman Homepage, or at least a fixture for every time something major happens in the Superman world.
This time around we take a look the theatrical trailer for "Superman Returns". If you have suggestions for future topics, please send them in to either Steve Younis or Neal Bailey. Enjoy!
Steve: | Welcome to another Superman Homepage Kryptonian Council meeting. I'm Steve Younis, and I'm joined by Barry Freiman, Neal Bailey, and Jeffrey Bridges to discuss the theatrical trailer for "Superman Returns". Nick Newman will join us a bit later. Welcome guys! |
Barry: | Hey everyone |
Neal: | Hi, all! |
Jeffrey: | Mmm, trailery goodness... Er, hello |
Steve: | Barry, you're chairing this meeting... Go for it |
Barry: | Well first off the trailer opens - and the path to the fortress isn't styrofoam "ice" - it's not your daddy's superman movie is it ? |
Neal: | Not at all. And Lex is IN the thing |
Steve: | No, big intro... nice look at the arctic |
Jeffrey: | Yeah, I think that alone lets you know just how different it's going to be |
Barry: | The view actually is like the view approaching the silver age fortress did anyone else catch that ? |
Neal: | No, but that's cool! Hadn't thought of that |
Steve: | Yeah, was looking for the massive door with the keyhole |
Jeffrey: | Heh |
Barry: | and some of what was done on smallville with the fortress this year now makes sense |
Neal: | Really? What were you thinking in particular? |
Barry: | the control panel for the Fortress is the same on smallville as in the movie - and the design differs from superman I and II |
Jeffrey: | It is? Wow, good catch. |
Neal: | Yeah, really good catch. I thought I had looked closely. :) Pwned |
Barry: | notice luthor doesn't put a crystal in but he moves his hands over the mechanism |
Steve: | I thought he was just reaching out |
Neal: | And Lana stomped, folded her arms, and walked out. |
Steve: | Didn't necessarily see it as a controlling action |
Neal: | I keed! It was pretty neat, though. Indicative of the generally awesome attention to cinematography |
Barry: | So do you think Brando fits ? |
Steve: | Oh yeah, that was awesome seeing his face in the crystal column |
Neal: | Sure. I mean, he looks 70s, but people don't care. They cross-associate over time |
Jeffrey: | Hard to tell from just those two seconds, but I'm excited to see him there |
Barry: | I'm excited to hear what it is he has to say - esp after reading Steve's set visit. |
Steve: | Hey, Krypton's dead... they haven't caught up on the current fashions ;) |
Jeffrey: | So they're stuck in Disco Heaven? Those poor people! |
Barry: | Is Ma Kent driving the same truck they found Clark in 30 years ago? |
Neal: | I'm surprised he seems to be visiting Krypton. They'll have to work to explain that. Neither Johns or Singer seem to get that where Krypton died...it's bad for Superman, oookay? |
Steve: | Neal, he is in a Kryptonian spacecraft |
Neal: | I know, I'm kidding around |
Steve: | Although, when he crashes back to earth he doesn't seem in tiptop shape |
Jeffrey: | Looks like it, Barry. it' |
Neal: | It looks like the same truck to me |
Barry: | Wish I had her mechanic. |
Jeffrey: | it's become a de-facto part of the mythos, the Kents and their red pickup truck |
Barry: | Is everyone OK with the fact that Superman I and II are a vague history but the Daily Planet is different, etc. |
Jeffrey: | Doesn't bother me at all |
Neal: | Yeah. It's all archetype |
Jeffrey: | But then I'm a big Bond fan so I'm used to that sort of thing |
Steve: | Heck, Superman, Lois, Perry, Lex, they're all different!!! |
Neal: | It resonates, and it plucks from the past. I love it, actually |
Barry: | I see it like a different artist's interpretation in a comic book |
Jeffrey: | Good analogy |
Steve: | And it's "vague history" not a sequel |
Barry: | Briefly on the costume |
Steve: | I don't think people understand that enough |
Barry: | The colors work in the environment |
Neal: | The important thing, and the thing that really worried me, is that unlike X-Men, he seems to be keeping things the same instead of "Ultimatizing" Superman, beyond the kid, anyway. |
Barry: | Notice in all the crowd scenes -- No Red. No bright primary colors on anyone or anywhere |
Neal: | I think the loud trolls on the boards don't understand it. I think most general people do. |
Barry: | so in any given scene Superman is the brightest thing |
Steve: | The costume looked great in the footage... It looks great in action. It looks like Superman |
Jeffrey: | Reeve's colors in the rooftop scene alone, for example, would have looked horribly garish. I think it works remarkably well |
Neal: | After seeing it in motion, I really have no problems with the costume any more. |
Barry: | I see color as a metaphor for superman's values |
Steve: | I don't like to diminish any previous versions... but Routh's costume is fine. Next question... |
Barry: | notice who's wearing almost yellow:Perry White... the editor of the beacon of truth in metropolis |
Neal: | THERE is a complaint. There is an honest-to-goodness complaint. HUGH LAURIE, otherwise known as HOUSE, should have been Perry. Then he would have personally stopped Luthor while annoying everyone and curing Superman's K-illness. If |
Jeffrey: | Not to diminish Reeve's costume, it fits perfectly in his movie. But these are different movies that call for different things, that's all. |
Neal: | only! |
Jeffrey: | How do you associate yellow with truth, Barry? |
Barry: | The relationship between Jimmy and Clark - reminded me of the Lois & Clark characters - thoughts? |
Neal: | That guy with the big machine gun must be new in town. I loved Superman on the approach. Heh. |
Barry: | i don't associate yellow with truth i associate the brighter colors with superman's values and perry gets to wear a brighter color because he's a man of good moral fiber in town |
Neal: | I think Jimmy is actually the closest Jimmy in any of the mediums yet. |
Steve: | I didn't see too much of the relationship between Jimmy and Lois... where did you get that from? The press conference scene? |
Jeffrey: | Ahh, gotcha Barry |
Barry: | Jimmy and Clark |
Steve: | Oh, sorry, misread your question |
Barry: | they are like the jimmy and clark from L&C |
Neal: | I mean, most of the Jimmy Olsen characters are grown men trying to be plucky. It hardly works |
Steve: | Yeah, they look like pals... finally |
Neal: | He just smacks of Jimmy, unlike the others |
Barry: | I felt a lot of Justin Whalin in Sam Huntington... to me thats a good thing |
Neal: | Even if Jungle 2 Jungle makes me cringe |
Barry: | OK next question... two words: THE KID |
Steve: | Where's the question? |
Jeffrey: | three words |
Neal: | It burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrns! |
Jeffrey: | NEEDS A HAIRCUT |
Neal: | mommmmieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! SPLAT |
Barry: | Is it too much? Would a fiance have been enough? |
Jeffrey: | From the trailer? Not at all. It's one of the parts that intrigues me the most. |
Steve: | Look, many people are predicting that the child will end up being Superman's biological son because of what happened in Superman II. To me that would make the "vague history" thing a lie. I don't buy it |
Neal: | I don't actually care whether there's a kid involved or not. I think it's an issue of Lois as a feminist icon. But that's a movie question. In the trailer, it would seem the kid acts okay. If you note, he flinches before Luthor screams |
Steve: | I don't mind the kid aspect. It adds more emotion to Lois' predicament. |
Barry: | Ironic that Superman 3 had little ricky, and Superman 4 had jeremy so what does singer do - another kid ... |
Jeffrey: | Well, it might also be to give kids something extra to identify with |
Barry: | I agree with you there Jeff |
Jeffrey: | In this age of adult-themed comic book movies |
Neal: | Well, it's just a bad pattern to fall into, making a feminist icon character dependent on another guy, burdened with a kid and still having a thriving career (a rarity), and also, Lois just can't be a person unto herself where half of her self is wrapped in THE KID |
Jeffrey: | it could be Singer attempting to actually include kids in this one, and I'm all for that, especially for Superman |
Barry: | I have a theory about the kid, and about James Marsden and about why Superman seems so angry later on |
Neal: | Not saying single mothers are bad. I'm just saying, for Lois Lane it's a bad character choice |
Steve: | Neal, I disagree. Being a feminist icon doesn't mean you can't be a mum. Or Mom as you Americans spell it |
Neal: | I'll rephrase. What I'm suggesting is that if you're taking a character who's a feminist icon, do you choose to make her plucky, independent, world-wise and successful, or do you saddle her down with a kid and make her dependent? |
Jeffrey: | Who says she's dependent? |
Steve: | That's an extreme take on it Neal |
Jeffrey: | There's nothing in the trailer to indicate that |
Barry: | i've always believed lois lane would want a child - the lois today - thats part of "having it all" |
Steve: | I don't think she's dependent at all... Taking on more responsibility seems something Lois would do |
Jeffrey: | Right on, Barry |
Steve: | Barry, what's your theory? |
Barry: | This could be major spoiler if I"m right but I"m conjecturing |
Neal: | More responsibility than she can handle? I mean, most women who end up single mothers don't end up with Lois's success...and it might just be a life-view thing. I don't see a kid as part of having it all...particularly for a woman fighting patriarchy |
Barry: | Lois's fiance isn't going to see the end of the movie |
Steve: | Neal, she's not a single mother... she's engaged to be married. For all we know she's living with whatshisface |
Jeffrey: | I don't see how fighting patriarchy means you can't have children, even if you *are* a single mother |
Barry: | What else would Superman be so angry at - they wont kill the kid not in a Superman movie |
Steve: | Barry, where was he angry? |
Barry: | when he smashes down into the dark Fortress |
Steve: | No, he's angry because of what Lex has done |
Jeffrey: | 2:01 in, he looks pretty pissed off to me, right before the chaingun clip |
Barry: | What has Lex done - we know from the Blogs that there's a scene with James Marsden in a plane going after Lois |
Steve: | I don't think he'd be THAT angry because of a guy who he doesn't even really know... and somewhat envies |
Barry: | I think Superman would be angrier because on some level it's what he wants and yet he knows that by failing to save him he's really hurt Lois |
Steve: | Barry, he's got Kryptonian technology, he broke into Superman's fortress, he's planning the death (and maybe causing the death) of BILLIONS of people... enough reasons for Superman to be angry |
Neal: | I think we need more information, definitely. I still stand by the idea that I think the kid in general is just an unnecessary complication, and a bit out of character. But then, like I preach, I won't condemn until I see the flick but the trailer hasn't assuaged that worry... Every other worry, pretty much, yeah. :) |
Barry: | Now that Brandon has spoken as Clark and Superman - thoughts? |
Neal: | I don't want to give the image that I'm pessimistic. |
Jeffrey: | I think he sounds great, particularly in the voiceover when flying with Lois |
Neal: | I think he's good in both characters. It's almost like watching Ewan do Obi-Wan |
Steve: | Brandon is great. Having met him in person, and sat right next to him during the interview, I know we've got our Superman/Clark Kent |
Jeffrey: | If I may also say, I loved the music during the Lois/Clark flying scene and I hope that's part of the new score |
Steve: | The pain and sadness in his eyes when he flies away from his meeting with Lois... no words, but great emotion |
Barry: | Thank you my next q was about the music. Were those new cues of the superman theme or re-used and re-edited? |
Jeffrey: | It was great at the beginning in the fortress, too |
Steve: | New cues I think... using Williams' themes. I love the build up half way through the trailer... that dum-de-dum build up is awesome |
Barry: | also in the airplane scene - the build up of the music is great |
Steve: | I also love the three trumpet blasts near the end |
Nick: | i have arrived, only slightly late |
Jeffrey: | it just sounds great all over :D |
Steve: | Welcome Nick. We'll accept your late note at the door into the meeting ;) |
Nick: | great, ill chime in, i thought the trailer was fantastic |
Barry: | My sense is that the trailer has shown us a very small part of the super-feats -- that the biggest isn't necessarily the airplane |
Neal: | We have a three hour movie. Undoubtedly, there will be a TON of stuff in there. Especially at that cost. |
Nick: | i would guess the same, hollywood sometimes gives away the big scenes in trailers, but I'm expecting more from singer |
Jeffrey: | Is it 3? I thought it was 2 1/2 |
Neal: | The DC movies tend not to give away too much. I mean, look back at Batman |
Barry: | is that right neal - is he going 3 hours ? |
Steve: | I've heard the airplane scene is a huge scene in the movie... and it looks spectacular, but I've also heard we'll see Superman use all his powers throughout the film. There's something about a bank robbery that also sounds awesome |
Neal: | As I recall, right Steve? Yeah, two and a half. |
Steve: | Between 2.5 and 3 hours... I've heard |
Barry: | We didn't see vision powers or super breath in the trailer |
Neal: | In that arena, anyway. Longer than your average little summer flick |
Jeffrey: | And that's a good thing! |
Neal: | Long enough (most importantly) to CHARACTERIZE. I might actually grow to like the little fart if they play him well enough. Har! |
Barry: | like those powers or not jeff, they are uniquely superman and belong in the movie |
Jeffrey: | I like them a lot, Barry. I meant it being longer than the "average little summer flick" was a good thing. ;) |
Nick: | yeah, you need to focus all of them |
Barry: | oh ok |
Jeffrey: | The joys of text chatting! |
Nick: | as long as you don't use any crazy tricks with plastic S symbols |
Jeffrey: | Or fingerbeams |
Neal: | Or Great Wall vision |
Barry: | No new powers ! |
Nick: | best scene ever |
Steve: | Any comments on Luthor? |
Neal: | WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG |
Barry: | Evil and Bald - that's all that needs to be said. |
Nick: | I knew Spacey would do a great job, and the trailer agrees. I think Luthor's gonna win. Superman better watch out. I agree Neal, that scene is fantastic |
Jeffrey: | He seems more aware of his evilosity, I think. From the trailer, anyway |
Steve: | Yeah, you get the feeling that Lex is indeed a true match for Superman |
Barry: | brain v brawn - mind over muscle |
Jeffrey: | Whereas in the comics half the time it seems he thinks he's the good guy. I didn't get that from Spacey. |
Barry: | ;) |
Jeffrey: | Not that I'm complaining, but it was just a vibe I got. |
Neal: | This is the first time I've said that Superman's gonna crap his pants. And honestly, I still like Rosenbaum for the look of the character, and the acting, from what I've seen, but Spacey has adult, contemporary Lex DOWN |
Steve: | Anything else? |
Jeffrey: | LOVE the confidence Spacey gives him |
Barry: | Neal you had a question I think |
Neal: | Nope! Honestly, two months can't pass fast enough. WROOOOOOOOOOOOOONG! No questions. But thank you. |
Nick: | I cannot wait for the movie. I'm honestly debating making the drive to Iowa for this early release that's been reported |
Steve: | Let us know if you do Nick |
Neal: | I'm honestly debating kidnapping Singer at gunpoint and forcing him to show me an early print. Who's down? Anyone? Anyone? |
Barry: | I'm very excited for the movie, and quite frankly I"m very excited for the Superman Homepage's continuing coverage leading up to it |
Neal: | Awwwwwwww......... Me too, in all seriousness. |
Neal: | I remember the same feeling watching theforce.net for Star Wars, only now I'm a part of that fandom. It's an incredible feeling. |
Steve: | I was so glad to finally be able to present the 12-part Set Visit report... It was a long 10 months sitting on that one |
Barry: | the build-up is part of what's so fun - on July 1 it'll all be about waiting for the DVD lol |
Steve: | OK guys, that looks like it... |
Jeffrey: | I can only imagine, Steve. I'm still only on part 7! It's so long, and I'm loving every bit of it. |
Neal: | All right! Thanks for a good one, guys! |
Barry: | Yes one more thing |
Steve: | Thanks again for another fun K Council meeting |
Barry: | anyone who hasn't read Steve's report - read it - it's spoilery so be warned but complete and well worth several reads... Now I'm done |
Steve: | Thanks barry. :) |
Neal: | Agreed. :) Later, all! |
Steve: | Thanks again guys. Bye |
Nick: | Bye |
Kryptonian Council Meetings
- June 2005 - Is the Superman Homepage anti-Smallville?
- October 2005 - Infinite Crisis #1
- November 2005 - Infinite Crisis #2
- January 2006 - Infinite Crisis #3
- January 2006 - Infinite Crisis #4
- March 2006 - Infinite Crisis #5
- March 2006 - Infinite Crisis: Secret Files & Origins 2006
- April 2006 - Infinite Crisis #6
- May 2006 - Infinite Crisis #7
- May 2006 - Superman Returns Theatrical Trailer
- May 2007 - Discussing 52