Kryptonian Council
Kryptonian Council
The Staff of the Superman Homepage Speak Out
[Date: January 2006]Hey, folks! Welcome to the Kryptonian Council! This is a free-form discussion where I and members of the Superman Homepage writing team will be talking freely about issues that affect the site and Superman in general. It's a little like Radio KAL, only it's more free-form. You'll find typos, off the cuff remarks. It's the website at its rawest, and it's supposed to be that way. Everything with a grain of salt, and humor, all the while confronting the issues of concern to a Superman fan. It's a way to extend the idea behind Radio KAL to multiple people, without having a bunch of people talking over each other, and we hope to make it a regular fixture here at the Superman Homepage, or at least a fixture for every time something major happens in the Superman world.
This time around we take a look at the third issue of the huge DC Universe event "Infinite Crisis". If you have suggestions for future topics, please send them in to either Steve Younis or Neal Bailey. Enjoy!
| Steve: | Welcome to another Superman Homepage "Kryptonian Council" meeting. Various members of the Superman Homepage staff have gathered together once again, this time to chat about "Infinite Crisis #3". |
| Steve: | Let's begin by introducing ourselves. I'm Steve Younis. |
| Neal: | I'm Neal Bailey |
| Michael: | Michael Bailey, man about town. |
| Jeffrey: | I'm Jeffrey Bridges. No, not the actor. |
| Barry: | I'm Barry Freiman, Earth Prime's Greatest Hero |
| Steve: | So, initial thoughts on IC #3? |
| Michael: | Fantastic issue. |
| Michael: | It really opened the story up and had a great mix of character and action. |
| Neal: | It was the first one where I had a beef...it stepped into that obscure character arena. But that beef, such as it was, is small. Pretty darned cool, all around, though I hope they explain how Alex got out of the prison to be the |
| Neal: | blue-eyed Luthor |
| Jeffrey: | I thought it was impressive, but it seems like there's almost too much going on. It's just HUGE, and it's difficult to follow all the sub-plots and keep everything straight. |
| Barry: | If your first issue introduces characters, your second issue starts to set up your conflicts, your third issue starts to turn things on their head |
| Jeffrey: | But thoroughly enjoyable. |
| Michael: | Exactly, Barry. |
| Barry: | this third issue did that with the revelations about Superboy and Alex |
| Steve: | Yeah Neal... how did Alex pull that off? |
| Barry: | I have a theory on that |
| Barry: | Superboy Prime represents the pre crisis Superboy |
| Barry: | That Superboy can easily travel through time |
| Jeffrey: | He can? |
| Neal: | My theory is because he can manipulate anti-matter (a Trek babble excuse if I ever heard one), he'll just be able to do things extra-dimensionally, through time, beyond barriers...how else did he set up the sanctuary in the first |
| Neal: | place? That's my guess |
| Steve: | But Barry... They were in a prison of sorts that only Superman (Kal-L) broke them out of |
| Barry: | with the ability to travel through time, once they got out of the prison they went to work in the past |
| Michael: | My guess; Alex went to his reward and the matter/anti-matter mix inside him made him go crazy. |
| Neal: | If he can set up something immune to the time and space crunch, he can leave it at will. That's my thought |
| Steve: | Oh OK, got ya Barry |
| Barry: | you can go to the past, do your thing and be back before anyone notices |
| Jeffrey: | Didn't they have to be out of the prison before Kal-L broke out? Else how could Superboy Prime have destroyed the watchtower and Alex form the Society? |
| Steve: | Jeff, by traveling back in time once they were out |
| Neal: | Problem though: If they can manipulate time, why not go to the beginning and just start the universe over, etc... |
| Steve: | Yeah, there's that Neal |
| Steve: | Barry? |
| Steve: | Any thoughts on that one? |
| Jeffrey: | I guess I follow that, Steve, though I fail to see the benefit of going back in time to destroy the watchtower. Why not just destroy it in the present? It doesn't add up for me. |
| Barry: | true - but going back to the dawn of time and starting it over, there's some serious competition |
| Neal: | This issue reassured me that this was not a continuity reboot. Otherwise, why have Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman all show how well they do at being a hero... |
| Barry: | anti monitor and spectre are there fighting as we know from the first crisis |
| Neal: | It set up Alex as a villain |
| Michael: | In any case I think that both Superboy Prime and Kal-L are both being used by Alexander for his own ends. |
| Neal: | And a sympathetic one, at that, for the trio |
| Steve: | I agree Michael |
| Neal: | They destroyed the K ring...that was sad to see, although very cool in the way they did it |
| Michael: | On a slightly different note, does anyone else think that this issue started the turn around of the Trinity getting off their collective butts and actually acting like the heroes they should be? |
| Steve: | Strange that the Watchtower computer didn't register Alexander Luthor as being there, only mistook Superboy Prime for Superman |
| Barry: | though was it you who said in the review neal that batman's got a million of them anyway? |
| Barry: | lol |
| Neal: | My guess is that'll start next issue, Mike |
| Neal: | And then fireworks in 5 (the big fight) |
| Neal: | That was my guess. Heh. Backup plan for backup plans. He has one planted on Superman right now. Heh |
| Neal: | Batman and Luthor should have a backup-plan off for charity |
| Barry: | Does everyone see Alex Luthor as a villain here ? |
| Michael: | The seeds were planted here, though. Superman acting like a leader and role model, Batman looking into the Watchtower's destruction, Wonder Woman sending her sisters into hiding. |
| Jeffrey: | I'm sad to see Paradise Island go. I think it means the eventual return of Diana Prince, which I'm not thrilled about at the moment. |
| Neal: | Actually, I don't see him as a villain. An ANTAGONIST, yes, in the literary sense, but you really feel a sense of sympathy for what he's doing |
| Michael: | Yes, but the question is what kind of villain? |
| Steve: | Barry, yeah, I think Alex is the villain of the story |
| Barry: | Michael's point is what i meant to get at |
| Neal: | Alex thinks he's a hero, bringing his universe back |
| Barry: | and who can blame him |
| Jeffrey: | A villain who thinks he's a hero is the best kind of villain, I think |
| Neal: | Heck, there are likely a ton of old-timers out there ROOTING for him |
| Steve: | I don't know... Maybe Superboy and Kal-L see it that way... but I think Alex knows what he's doing is wrong |
| Neal: | Or even nostalgic kid types |
| Michael: | I mean are his goals for something he sees as the greater good or is he just mad and wanting to destroy everything for the sake of destroying it? |
| Barry: | they fought to preserve realities and preserved almost everyone's except their even now Superman-2's plan isn't to bring it all back just Earth 2 |
| Michael: | Also, are his Earth-3 roots showing? I mean his father was that Earth's only hero, but that doesn't mean the son has to be. |
| Neal: | How about this...who thinks they'll be successful? |
| Jeffrey: | Seems pretty selfish and un-Superman-like, that. |
| Steve: | Neal, to a degree, I think they might be |
| Neal: | We know Earth 2 Supes will still be around after all this. |
| Jeffrey: | The Superman I know would never sacrifice someone else's world solely for his own |
| Neal: | (At least) |
| Barry: | Neal how do we know that |
| Michael: | I think Kal-L sees re-creating Earth-2 as just folding the reality back and no one would really die, they would just be reborn for the greater good. |
| Neal: | Comic solicitations |
| Jeffrey: | Perhaps so. |
| Barry: | I'm not sure i think the upcoming story-line on the Earth 2 Superman's life doesn't mean for sure he'll be around |
| Neal: | TRUE |
| Barry: | it just means it's a good time to tell his life story - death is a good time to review one's life. |
| Jeffrey: | I think having two Supermen at once would just be a bad idea. It would split the fan-base, and make continuity more of a mess than it is now. |
| Neal: | Think about it this way...if Superman could sacrifice his history to make Krypton live, you think he would? No, I doubt it. He'd see it as villainy. |
| Michael: | And it is a great bridge to ONE YEAR LATER. |
| Neal: | Yeah |
| Jeffrey: | Exactly my thoughts, Neal. |
| Neal: | Was it Clarence Darrow with the "You can't go home again?" I screw that quote up all the time |
| Michael: | Yeah, but Kal-L was always a different type of Superman. |
| Steve: | True Michael |
| Jeffrey: | I'm honestly not very familiar with him |
| Michael: | I honestly believe he doesn't see it as a sacrifice. |
| Barry: | even if the end result turns out to be that everyone remembers the Crisis and remembers what things were like before and how they changed and when they changed would be a pretty significant change even if we still had only one earth |
| Michael: | True. |
| Barry: | imagine suddenly remember u had a completely other just as valid life as the one u remember as your own |
| Barry: | like power girl |
| Neal: | There wouldn't even be a problem, I don't think, with two universes separated by phase, as before. |
| Neal: | My guess is they'll fight, and realize that they can have their cake and eat it too, maybe |
| Steve: | Neal, the problem would be fans not being able to tell which was which |
| Michael: | I honestly believe that INFINITE CRISIS is DC's attempt to acknowledge their past before moving forward. |
| Neal: | But then, they have to band together to fight that space thingy... |
| Neal: | True, Steve. |
| Barry: | true michael and that past should be acknowledged |
| Neal: | But then, I think fans can handle very complex storylines...and Geoff seems to acknowledge that with a continuity intense story... |
| Neal: | That space thing...theories? |
| Michael: | It's like they're saying, "Ok, here is where we were and are, now we are going to move things forward." |
| Barry: | i've hated that pre-crisis history was "just history" for the past 20 years i prided myself on knowing the infinite earths like i did. |
| Neal: | I'm hoping the Anti-Monitor pops out from flux in time and throws down |
| Barry: | what is with the anti-monitor represented on the machine? is that his body? |
| Steve: | Yeah, it appears to be his remains |
| Barry: | or a recreation for dramatic effect? |
| Neal: | That's his shell he sacrificed when he was almost killed in Crisis 8, I think it was. Maybe 9 |
| Neal: | He became an energy being, and they went and attacked that |
| Neal: | (After they took his shell) |
| Barry: | well kara destroyed his first shell |
| Neal: | Right |
| Michael: | The space thingie is either a distraction on the part of Alex to get some of the more powerful heroes into space or a rip in the space time continuum from Kal-L banging his way out of their heaven. |
| Neal: | That's the one Alex has |
| Neal: | And the machine is the Anti-Monitor's shadow generator, as I recall, right? |
| Barry: | he has the one that kara destroyed ? |
| Neal: | Yes |
| Barry: | kewl |
| Neal: | That's the top of the machine |
| Jeffrey: | More powerful heroes? That's a second-tier squad if ever I've seen one. |
| Michael: | The heck you say! |
| Barry: | i think that's telling about the new kara - at what point does she find out that she died |
| Michael: | Donna Troy put together a pretty formidable group of heroes. |
| Jeffrey: | But none of them are the heavy hitters, really |
| Steve: | Supergirl is |
| Barry: | yes i just wish their mission seemed clearer |
| Jeffrey: | Yes, but barring her, no one else is. And Supergirl's true power levels remain to be seen. |
| Steve: | So Spectre destroyed Atlantis? |
| Neal: | That's next issue, I'm sure |
| Barry: | with that coming cover yes i'm sure you're right neal |
| Michael: | Yeah, but putting Superman into space makes no sense at this point, J'onn is out of commission and Captain Marvel is having problems of his own. |
| Barry: | question - who powers the Marvel family with Shazam dead? |
| Jeffrey: | I'm not saying there's no reason for who they sent out there, I'm just saying it's hardly what I'd call a squad of some of the "more powerful heroes". |
| Neal: | Yeah |
| Jeffrey: | If anything, it sends the message to me that Donna thinks whatever is out there isn't all THAT big of a deal, because she didn't take any truly powerful people with her. |
| Jeffrey: | (sans the in-flux Supergirl) |
| Michael: | Ok, from a pure story standpoint she couldn't have taken the heavy hitters with her because they are tied up elsewhere. |
| Steve: | Perhaps there's a reason she took who she took |
| Barry: | but there are green lanterns in the lineup you can't say there aren't heavy hitters there |
| Michael: | But she pretty much said that she was taking the more powerful heroes in the last issue of JLA. |
| Barry: | supergirl and one green lantern is a hell of a lot of power |
| Jeffrey: | Ah, I haven't read the latest JLA yet |
| Neal: | It's the sacrifice team, as I see it. A lot of those guys are doomed to death.... |
| Jeffrey: | Agreed, Neal. |
| Steve: | So, did Spectre destroy Atlantis? |
| Michael: | Yeah, I can see that. |
| Jeffrey: | And if he did, does anyone care? :) |
| Neal: | That confused me |
| Michael: | Looks like it Steve. I haven't picked up Aquaman yet. |
| Steve: | And this anti-monitor tower Alex is building, other than J'onn, what other heroes are embedded in it? |
| Barry: | The ONE Year Later solicitations came out recently and Aquaman appears to be in for the largest change and a lot of that has to do with Atlantis which is decimated but not totally destroyed |
| Jeffrey: | I think the Ray was in the tower, wasn't he? |
| Neal: | Captain Atom, Ray, and Black Adam |
| Barry: | Lady Quark |
| Barry: | and I think Breach |
| Neal: | Guys with huge reserves of untapped power, and one from each universe, as I recall |
| Jeffrey: | Captain Atom? I didn't see him in there |
| Neal: | On the left |
| Barry: | No Capt Atom isn't there |
| Steve: | So, was Alex revealed to be blue-eyed society Luthor to everyone... or just green-eyed Lex? |
| Barry: | that's Breach I think |
| Neal: | A guy in a white suit, anyway |
| Jeffrey: | I think it was just Lex |
| Barry: | Capt Atom isn't in white anymore and he's off in the Wildstorm universe. |
| Steve: | So what do you guys think will happen to green-eyed Lex? |
| Neal: | He has wolverine style markings, and a red slash going through him.... |
| Neal: | I think Lex will be A-O-K. I think he may even be leading the villains from Villains United |
| Barry: | well I almost wet myself when I saw the purple jump suit |
| Barry: | that's my Lex |
| Jeffrey: | I'd like to see him prevail... I could see him teaming up with the heroes to "save his universe". |
| Neal: | I did wet myself |
| Michael: | Quick aside; I am counting at least three Green Lanterns, Jade, Firestorm, Supergirl, Starfire, Captain Comet, Hawkman and Shift. That's a pretty decent team. |
| Michael: | Purple suit = good. |
| Barry: | Yes I agree with you Michael |
| Neal: | (In Earth 2) |
| Jeffrey: | Still all second or third stringers, though |
| Barry: | Shift is there to be sacrificed one hopes - barely need two Metamorphos |
| Jeffrey: | IE - what do you want on your Tombstone? |
| Steve: | So you think Alex just let Lex live? |
| Neal: | Two Firestorms, at that |
| Michael: | I thought Lex escaped. |
| Neal: | I think Lex will beat Alex. I think Lex will save the universe. But I'm biassed |
| Jeffrey: | Lex teleported out before he could be killed. |
| Neal: | Lex is ticked. |
| Barry: | I didn't like the artwork on that page |
| Steve: | That's right |
| Barry: | it was confusing |
| Michael: | Lex is certainly going to be a player. |
| Neal: | He's coming back to chew bubblegum and kick anti-matter |
| Jeffrey: | Up with Luthor! Down with homework! |
| Michael: | The thing is that now that Alex had been revealed as the Luthor behind the Society you're going to see the villains start to turn on him. |
| Neal: | I sympathize with Luthor, actually, as my soapbox goes. |
| Michael: | Especially Black Adam, who is going to be pissed. |
| Barry: | It was unclear to me that Alex was the blue eyed Lex in disguise at first, it was also unclear that Lex teleported away before being shot by heat vision |
| Steve: | Black Adam is out of commission now... in the Anti-Monitor tower |
| Neal: | It was too crushed together. They have too much story to tell in too small a format. The price of such good art and such an important story...Geoff's handling it pretty good though |
| Michael: | Once he escapes or is freed. Sorry. |
| Jeffrey: | The only thing is I think on the other side of the crisis, Lex is going to keep his purple and green suit and stay all maniacal. And I have a soft-spot for the evil billionaire version. |
| Neal: | Yeah, I think Luthor's past businessman after all this is over. Which is good and bad |
| Steve: | So, anyone want to discuss any other points from IC #3? |
| Neal: | Joker |
| Neal: | What about Joker's role? |
| Jeffrey: | Or lack thereof? |
| Michael: | I don't know. Wizard was pretty clear that Lex is going to be an interesting character in the next year. I think he is going to end up being an interesting player and a mix of the business man and mad scientist. |
| Neal: | Yeah. It's been hinted he'll be a big deal, but how? |
| Michael: | I think the Joker is going to come out in a big way later in the series. |
| Jeffrey: | None of the Bat-villains have played a big role in the crisis, come to think of it |
| Neal: | Also, Flash: Live or dead by the end...speculation? |
| Barry: | I thought that the full page Superman being super was an artistic highlight of the issue |
| Neal: | Likewise |
| Steve: | Me too Barry |
| Michael: | AWESOME PAGE! |
| Michael: | Loved it. |
| Barry: | and showed me that Jimenez isn't just a Perez clone anymore - it had shades of Ordway, Jurgens |
| Jeffrey: | Best page of the comic. :) |
| Michael: | I don't know. Killing Wally would be a mistake. |
| Neal: | I personally, after reading the Geoff Flash through, don't believe he'd do anything to change him. My guess is that Kid Flash is a goner |
| Michael: | Killing Kid Flash would be a mistake. He's too interesting now. |
| Steve: | Wally having twins now would also make it seem he's sticking around |
| Neal: | Yes. Exactly why it's a big risk |
| Barry: | Being around and being Flash are 2 different things though |
| Michael: | Three years ago I would have said different, but I am digging Bart. |
| Jeffrey: | I think killing Flash would be too ... expected |
| Barry: | Retirement? |
| Michael: | There is that rumor that the Flash will be a de-aged (for lack of a better term) Jay Garrick, which would also be a mistake. |
| Jeffrey: | So instead they'll make us think he's a goner and then he'll survive just fine |
| Neal: | De-powering has been thrown around |
| Steve: | Time to wrap this up... any last thoughts? |
| Neal: | The series is still strong, and all I'd hoped it would be' |
| Michael: | This was a fantastic issue. I have no real complaints and hope that the story continues to take as many twists and turns as they have been throwing at us. |
| Jeffrey: | It's the most exciting thing I've read in comics since the Death of Superman, and I think this tops that. It's a great time to be a DC fan. |
| Michael: | Amen! |
| Barry: | Super stuff and the most exciting changes to the Superman line since the death and return |
| Neal: | I think it's the best since the Death, really. I'm more into comics than I ever have been, after years of paring back |
| Jeffrey: | Yes indeedy |
| Steve: | Well thanks guys for another exciting Kryptonian Council. Catch you after #4 |
| Neal: | Later, everyone! |
| Jeffrey: | Looking forward to it! |
| Michael: | Good night and good luck. |
| Barry: | Happy New Year all |
Kryptonian Council Meetings
- June 2005 - Is the Superman Homepage anti-Smallville?
- October 2005 - Infinite Crisis #1
- November 2005 - Infinite Crisis #2
- January 2006 - Infinite Crisis #3
- January 2006 - Infinite Crisis #4
- March 2006 - Infinite Crisis #5
- March 2006 - Infinite Crisis: Secret Files & Origins 2006
- April 2006 - Infinite Crisis #6
- May 2006 - Infinite Crisis #7
- May 2006 - Superman Returns Theatrical Trailer
- May 2007 - Discussing “52”
