As fans of Henry Cavill’s Superman continue to wonder whether they’ll see Superman on the big screen again any time soon, Jay Oliva (who worked as a storyboard artist on “Man of Steel”) has revealed via Twitter that “Man of Steel” was originally intended to be the first of a five film story.
Man of Steel was never meant to have a sequel because it was supposed to be chapter 1 of a 5 chapter story. Notice how BvS follows exactly after MoS? It’s like book two of Harry Potter.
— Jay Oliva (@jayoliva1) April 22, 2018
With “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” following on directly from “Man of Steel”, and then “Justice League” following on directly after that, there’s plenty of speculation amongst fans that a “Man of Steel 2” film and a second “Justice League” movie were originally part of the plans formulated by director Zack Snyder that would have made up those five chapters.
Whether or not we’ll get to see Henry Cavill in another Superman film is unknown at this point in time. He is rumored to have a cameo appearance in 2019’s “SHAZAM!” movie, but whether he’ll ever fly solo as the Man of Steel in another film is anyone’s guess at this point in time.
The way Oliva worded this is odd. It makes it sound like there was never plans for another solo Superman film, even one coming after Batman v Superman and two Justice League movies. I had thought that the plan was originally to have Man of Steel be the first part of a solo Superman trilogy, but then when WB felt it underperformed, they decided it was wise to bring Batman into the next movie. Once that happened, I figured the plan was: Batman v Superman, Justice League: Part One, Justice League: Part Two, and Man of Steel 2. Maybe that… Read more »
Batman could have been brought into a sequel as a mysterious character investigating who this Superman is. I believe in the right hands, that story could have been done well. But it never was In The right hands…at least in terms of Superman fans. They can claim all they want that BvS was the ‘logical’ next step but it wasn’t. In what world does a frank Miller version of Batman work with any version of Superman that we Superman fans like? I mean let’s be honest here… nobody wanted the Dark Knight Returns version of Superman to represent the cinematic… Read more »
I’m not saying I know what the plan was but it’s always seemed to me that people assumed BvS was some massive divergence from the original plan without any real evidence that was the case. I actually think if you are trying to build a multi-hero universe like Marvel but don’t want to do it exactly the same way having a single character – Superman – be your gateway to the other heroes is a pretty sound approach. Marvel gave us Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk and Iron Man II prior to the Avengers. Whilst there was some minor… Read more »
What you’re forgetting is that the major misstep in Iron Man 2 was trying to world build at the expense of the film. The plot suffered because they threw in fury, black widow and hints at a larger world. That movie came out in 2010… more than enough time for someone at DC/WB to stop and say ‘hey that didn’t work there…let’s avoid that same pitfall’ BvS to me was a complete overreaction right down to the title of the film. It reeked of desperation ‘come see our movie because Batman is fighting Superman!’ They even knew it was probably… Read more »
I actually think Iron Man 2 was unneccessary. I see what you’re saying about world-building being an issue for that movie however I think there are different types of world-building. I can see why some of the Justice League character cameos and Future Flash in BvS could be considered unneccessary. However I don’t think Batman himself was a problem. Why not have some of the superhero characters meet and team up before they form the Justice League? One of the things Marvel seems to be dabbling a bit with these days is having more than one superhero in their solo… Read more »
I actually never had a problem with Batman being in the film… if done correctly. However I feel that making him the main character of the movie was a huge misstep. In my opinion if you had introduced him as a supporting character, kept the focus on Superman and left Batman’s motivations ambiguous until the end, it would have worked so much better. That’s the movie I wanted to see. Batman is my second favorite hero (a very distant second) but I thought his portrayal was not the interpretation I wanted. He wasn’t conducting his own investigation (worlds greatest detective),… Read more »
Yeah I’m just going to call shenanigans on this. Putting Batman in part 2 probably wouldn’t have happened had the execs not put unrealistic financial expectations on MOS. It’s pretty obvious that Superman was put on the back burner in BvS to strengthen Batman’s presence. Superman was a more traditional version of himself by the end of MoS when he’s interacting with General Swanwick… he’s smiling and joking around with him and then they made him dour again in BvS to fit the new narrative. If this was intended as a long story for Superman, they did a very bad… Read more »
I don’t remember that part in Chamber of Secrets where Harry snaps Riddle’s neck, but hey, you know, your mileage may vary.
Do you think if Harry could have he would have saved his parents, or would he have stood there like an idiot so people wouldn’t find out he was a witch? I wonder…
I think they might have had to cut that scene for the scene where Harry destroys Hogwarts and kills most of the students inside in the big fight with Voldemort.
That was a cheap shot Neal. The analogy wasn’t about specific plot points it was about having an overall framework/plan for the franchise.
Look, I like Man of Steel and I get defensive when people reduce it to just one or two points they don’t like and ignore everything else that was good about it.
I get that some people can’t abide Superman killing but that wasn’t all the movie was or was about. Also Superman has a bit of a habit when it comes to killing Zods going all the way back to the theatrical release of Superman II.
I also enjoyed Man of Steel and while it wasn’t perfect, it was good enough to springboard a franchise. That being said, there’s enough evidence to the contrary that they didn’t have some elaborate 5 movie plan. At least initially. If MoS hadn’t underperformed (according to those in charge) he would have been the main focus of any sequel whether it was a proper MOS2 or a VS story. Truth is though, they panicked and pushed Batman to the forefront because In their minds, he brings in the big bucks based on name alone (clearly learning nothing from the Schumacher… Read more »
I don’t see where I reduced Man of Steel to one or two points I don’t like. I do see me making an offhand joke you clearly didn’t get because you’re too personally attached and defensive.
I’m glad you liked the movie, and I hope you continue to enjoy it.
I did concede to being defensive in my previous post. I’ve never had a problem with people having different tastes or opinions to me. In most cases tastes are subjective, opinions are a little less so and I’m more inclined to debate those. What really gets on my nerves is what I call drive by attacks – or is that fly by attacks – on the things I like that basically point out one bad/negative thing and reduce it to that. When I was a kid waxing rhapsodical to my mum about Superman she would scoff and make a crack… Read more »
Opinions are less subjective? They’re ENTIRELY subjective. You are complaining about drive-by attacks… in a COMMENT section. Seriously. Look, you have read my work, by your own admission. You also said you don’t know if I liked or hate the movie, but you’re taking shots at me for making a joke that may or may not reflect an opinion you disagree with. That’s… wait for it… a drive-by attack, my friend. If you’ve read my work, then you know that I am the exact opposite of a person who points out one negative thing without thought. My reviews for forty… Read more »
Well I honestly think it’s unfortunate (for me) that you spiked your review. Whilst our overall opinion of the movie differed I may still have agreed with some of your criticisms if I had the chance to read them. An honest thought out review would never ruin my fun even if I totally disagreed with it. The reason I respond so negatively to comments like the one I labelled a “cheap shot” are because they come across – to me at least – as a hit and run attack. Normally I let these things slide but I suppose I’ve always… Read more »
Also this shows an inherent problem in unsuccessful franchises… putting the cart before the horse. Make ONE good movie at a time. This is why we’re in the mess we are now…because you basically wanted to do what the latest mummy movie did and put world building ahead of telling a good story. If you have to bend over backwards to explain the meaning behind the films like what’s happening now with BvS then you didn’t do a good job of telling the story. It shouldn’t require an Ultimate Cut or further explanation. Tell the story right the first time.… Read more »
At it’s inception MOS was meant to be the start of a Superman franchise much like Nolan’s Batman films where it exists in it’s own universe without other heroes. Nolan would not have been involved if there was even a sniff of things eventually leading to World’s Finest or Justice League. Of course that all changed when the short sighted buffoons at WB saw Avengers make a billion dollars after the box office, and decided they just had to get a piece of that action, too. Problem is that wasn’t the plan at the beginning, and they’ve been changing things… Read more »
You’re absolutely right. Getting a Superman sequel right with a different writer and director should have been the logical next step. I was not even opposed to having Batman in a sequel, but it should have been in a way smaller and mysterious role. Not the freaking lead of the movie. These execs are inept. They gave David Ayer only 6 weeks to write suicide squad and then let a trailer company cut the movie. Idiots. They can say all they want after the fact, but they had a chance to prove themselves 3 times now so I don’t want… Read more »
And yeah that last quote is directed at Jay Oliva who acts like fans like me, who hated the resolution of the BvS fight, are idiots. We’re not idiots. We expect more from you as creators… don’t make us go through mental gymnastics to get to the outcome YOU wanted. I saw you try to demean people who hated the Martha line. There’s probably a reason he’s still on animated films and not on feature films… not trying to be mean, but when you try and act like I’m stupid for not grasping YOUR concept?? That really offends me as… Read more »
I have a question in regards to how many DC movies come out a year. Aquaman will be out later this year. What is the ratio on how many movies that we can expect from DC? Last year we had two movies, this year as far as I know there is only one movie coming out. I’m just curious.
Its all part of the 5 movie plan. Dont forget there are 3 Harley Quinn movies, nightwing, a joker elseworlds story… Its so clear! Why would we ever question their plans? They clearly have it together.
I see. With their 5 movie plan, there was Man of Steel, but was BvS and Justice League a part of that plan? Are there still 4 more movies with this version of Superman planned? Or is it two movies? I don’t understand about how many Superman movies there are suppose to be.
I’m sorry if I appeared to be snarky towards you. It’s not directed at you at all. I just truly don’t believe that there ever was an initial ‘plan’ and no matter what they say, there’s enough evidence to the contrary. It’s easy to say after the fact that there was an endgame in mind, but 5 movies intothis universe and they did very little with Superman. They killed him in the second movie and the only reason I was affected at all was because I love the character, not because of what they showed me on screen. They clearly… Read more »
No worries. I do appreciate your effort in helping me understand what’s going on with these films. Thank you.
I just don’t buy the idea that having ‘Batman v Superman’ as the second movie in the series was part of the original plan. It just felt rushed and half-baked. We needed a proper ‘Man of Steel’ sequel before ‘BvS’, to see Superman himself as a beloved, trusted hero after the destruction that Zod and the other Kryptonians caused in ‘MoS’. Batman and Luthor could have appeared, foreshadowing the confrontation that would come in the next movie. Then we would’ve had more time to understand Bruce and Lex’s motivations, and to become emotionally invested in Henry’s version of Superman before… Read more »
Theyre just saying this to stir the pot, make no mistake… coincidnece these sound bites are coming out right before infinity war? Jay oliva has no credibility to be making these claims. The newest superman animated movie is already making people mad because theyre using the now defunked new 52 version of superman even though they claimed it would be a faithful adaptation. I dont really want to hear anything this guy has to say. They had their chance.
Maybe if I say it in words theyll understand…
‘Its dead. Bury it.’ (Such wordsmiths!)
Just a thought – wasn’t there someone here that cornered Snyder just after the BvS announcement and Snyder told them “it’s not my call”, basically? I can’t remember who it was, but I’m sure I remember someone saying that. That would seem to discredit this.
Anybody else?
Yup I recall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea0r7x0piOg&feature=share 14min 25 seconds… 22 min 25 seconds… just for giggles.
Yes, and what I said below, Snyder just wanted a cameo as they were hashing out MoS 2 but it snowballed into doing BvS. Again, Jay Olivia is a busy guy, he’s been to A LOT of creative meetings and seen A LOT of storyboards. So who’s to say that after 4 or 5 years of constantly doing that he didn’t get his facts crossed? They say eyewitness testimony is one of the most unreliable due to our brains filling gaps with misinformation over time. I’m sure I’m not the only one that could have sworn something happened a different… Read more »
To be fair, I’m not knocking Jay at all – he’s a talented guy and seems very nice. I’m specifically saying that I remember reading an encounter listed here that discounts what he remembers. Now that I put it like that, sounds rather cyclical..lol But anyway, I’m just saying that this discounting means he’s possibly mistaken. Not that he’s a bad person or something. My intent with the word “discredit” is denotative, not connotative. That’s my bad for not being more clear on that. 🙂 I agree that it would be interesting to see what the original plan was –… Read more »
I always like to bring out this little gem when talking about the failure that is the DCEU. Pretty much says all you need to know. Something changed during MOS’s production, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what it was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uEgIONT2vo
That’s what happens when you put Snyder in charge of the “french fries”.
It seems the best response to Olive is something along the lines of…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDW0ZnZxjn4
I find it amusing that this revelation was brought to light. Every fan assumed that a direct sequel was a no brainer after Man Of Steel’s moderate success. Shoehorning Batman into the sequel for ticket sales and marketability to boost Superman’s 21st century presence was meant with good intentions but it backfired somehow. Some liked it. Some don’t. Some say it’s misunderstood. Then came justice League as chapter 3. Would chapter 4 been have been about the return and 5 defend the earth once more from Darkseid and Brainiac!? We’ll never know for sure. But it would have been amazing… Read more »
It sounds to me like it was more of a General direction they supposedly wanted to go. No way there were any scripts for anything beyond The first draft of Justice League. I will say again that the people in charge have made the most inept decisions considering they’re all so business-mind oriented. They essentially blamed Superman as a character for not bringing in a billion dollars rather than blame Goyer or Snyder. This is always an issue because superman is considered ‘unrelatebale’ which is a bunch of crap… it’s just that the creators are lazy and don’t want to… Read more »
It’s frustrating I know. We are all a bit passionate when it comes to our favourite hero. I see your point and what you’re getting at though. Superman needs filmmakers that are as passionate as us.
Except for the fact Snyder himself said that BvS came from him wanting a Bruce Wayne cameo at the end or post credits of MoS 2. And quote “once you say it, you can’t unsay it.” Then with Kevin Tsujihara’s “we need to make our Avengers movie ASAP,” initiative BvS came to be. I think Olivia is just confused or possibly remembered it wrong. After BvS became a thing then there probably was a 5 film arc or something (Snyder said he had the whole DC universe planned out on a board in his office) because JL was going to… Read more »
I agree with a lot of this, as I’ve said above, but did want to touch on one thing..
How did BvS change the ending to MoS? Besides my not finding it all that uplifting, the only real “up” scenes either consisted of people/places not in the general public eye (military or Martha) or involved Clark and not Superman. Other than that, there’s not really a sense of how the general public feels after this, iirc.
It wasn’t necessarily an uplifting ending, but Superman was in a happier and better place. He’s clearly joking around with the general, having a moment with his mom at Jon Kent’s grave and starting a new career with a big smile ending the film. BvS plunges him even lower than he was in his most dour moments from MoS. I would say he was more introspective and clearly doing some soul searching in MOS, but in BvS he’s straight up depressed… even in his most heroic moments.
Then a complete 180 in JL with no real explanation.
I see what you mean, but Superman is fairly upbeat in the beginning of BvS, too. He has his moments, but they generally come after the controversy builds.
The 180 in JL is pretty out of the blue – though after the Zod fight, cutting to him joking with the General with a big smile was quite the 180 from a story beat perspective.
This feels like George Lucas insisting he had Star Wars all planned out from the beginning.