In a 52 minute interview with Josh Horowitz for the Happy Sad Confused podcast, “Superman” director James Gunn talks everything from casting and cut scenes to the future of Superman and the entire DCU.
Overview of the Interview
The interview, hosted by Josh Horowitz, features writer-director James Gunn in what is described as his “last big interview after a very long road on Superman“. It is a spoiler-filled conversation that took place a couple of days after the film’s release, with Gunn “basking in the happy reviews [and] the solid box office”. Horowitz, a long-time Superman fan, found Gunn’s film “fresh,” “unique,” “deeply personal,” “funny and moving and weird and cool and invigorating and exciting”. The discussion covers the film’s critical reception, creative choices, casting, and future plans for the DCU, including projects like “Batman”, “Wonder Woman”, and “Peacemaker”.
Film Reception and James Gunn’s Personal Reflections
Pressure and Relief: Gunn admitted feeling “a lot of pressure” going into the film, especially for the people who worked tirelessly on it, including department heads, actors, and Peter Safran, who “wholeheartedly 100% in”. The relief came from the movie working “on its own” and fostering “so much goodwill” for David Corenswet as Superman and the DCU.
Emotional Impact: Gunn was “taken aback and happily surprised” by the “visceral and emotional way” many people reacted to the film, as he hadn’t initially thought of it as being as emotional as his “Guardians 3”.
Parallels with Superman’s Journey: Horowitz noted interesting parallels between Superman’s journey in the film – being “brought down by internet trolls” and “saved arguably by love and friendship” – and Gunn’s own experiences. Gunn, however, stated he “literally never thought of it” and clarified that Superman was “brought down by a guy who’s trying to murder him” with “nanites in his lungs,” making the internet trolls seem insignificant in comparison. He also stated he was thinking about “governments [hiring] bots to create all this mischief” when writing elements like the monkey bots.
Barometer of Success: For Gunn, the true measure of success is whether he is “enjoying myself creatively” and if the process of making the movie was “rich,” “fulfilling,” and “purposeful”. He acknowledged that the movie itself “belongs to everybody else,” but the process “belongs to me”. He also highlighted the collective belief among the cast and crew that the film was “about goodness”.
Creative Decisions and Risks in “Superman”
Biggest Creative Risk: Gunn considers the “12-minute talking scene in a superhero movie” to be his biggest creative risk. This scene, which remains “relatively the same” as the original script and screen test, explores both Lois’s and Clark’s points of view regarding “truth” and “life”. Gunn noted that while Lois makes “very good points” and is practical, audiences tend to agree with Clark’s idealized view of doing the right thing. The scene also highlights Superman’s “flaws,” such as being “a little rash” and not as “quick on his feet as Lois is”.
Music Choices: A significant “change up” for Gunn was relying heavily on the score rather than “needle drops” (pop songs), a technique that has been a “lifeline” throughout his career. This decision was “scary” at “every stage,” particularly halfway through editing. While a love theme and Lex’s themes were written early and stayed in, some original score elements by John Murphy had to be “lighten[ed]” in collaboration with Dave Fleming to match the film’s slightly lighter tone.
Opening and Closing: The film’s opening, depicting Superman “in media res” at his “lowest point,” was the “kickstart[ing]” idea for the story, inspired by Gunn getting his dog and the image of Superman with “a little bit of blood in his mouth”. The closing, showing him in a chair seeing his parents, was decided later.
Opening Crawl: The opening crawl was a “much later” addition, after test screenings revealed that audiences were “confused going into this other universe”. Gunn compared it to “Star Wars”, noting it helped “set up the fact that this is an alternate history [and] an alternate reality”. A narrator was not considered due to the importance of the “quiet of the ice planes”.
Lex and Superman’s Speeches: Lex’s speech to Superman was “baked in” from the beginning. Superman’s concluding speech, added later, was intended to “underline who he is [and] what’s important to him”. Gunn described David Corenswet’s delivery of this speech as a “greatest moment for me on set,” overcoming initial nervousness that it could be “too cheesy”. He recounted a collaborative moment where Corenswet initially questioned the emotional intensity, but through discussion, they found the right balance, with Gunn stressing that emotional hurt can exist despite logical understanding.
Jor-El and Lara’s Message: Gunn firmly stated that Jor-El and Lara’s message is “real” and “not doctored,” citing confirmation from Mr. Terrific, the secretary of defense, and Lex Luthor himself within the movie. This is a central theme about Superman making choices based on his beliefs, not external destiny.
Production Debates: Several elements were “heatedly debated” during production:
– Saving the Squirrel: Some audience members found Superman saving a squirrel “too silly” or questioned “Why is he saving a squirrel?”.
– Guy Gardner’s Language: In the initial cut, Guy Gardner used a “P word” to describe Superman, which got an “enormous laugh”. This was later changed to “wuss”.
– Jimmy Olsen’s Smile: A major debate was whether Jimmy should smile at the end when Eve hugs him. Different versions were tested, with Peter Safran advocating for the smile and Gunn initially favouring “the void” before the smile was chosen as Eve “did save the day”.
– Lex’s Darker Behaviour: A darker version of a scene where Lex shoots a guy was filmed but not included in test screenings. In this version, Lex was concerned about the victim’s blood getting on his shoes and made Geros “soak up the blood”.
Casting and Character Development
Superman (David Corenswet): Corenswet “kills it” as Superman. Gunn described him as a “very actor actor” who “questions everything all the time,” contrasting with actors like Chris Pratt and John Cena who “just have learned to trust me”. Despite initial differences, their collaboration led to a “beautiful” performance, with Gunn stating, “when David and I were on the same page that was the best”.
Lex Luthor (Nicholas Hoult): Nicholas Hoult is praised as the “unsung hero” in the Lex/Superman speech scene, being “perfect every time and never misses”. Gunn initially spoke with Bradley Cooper for the role, but decided he wanted Lex to be more “contemporary of Superman’s” age, though he believes Cooper “would have been a great Lex”. The early prototypes of Lex’s physical suit are shown, with the potential for him to become a physical adversary in future films.
Other Superman Finalists: Tom Brittney was one of the finalists for Superman, alongside Corenswet and Hoult, and Gunn described him as an “amazing actor” whom he hopes to work with in the future.
Henry Cavill’s Departure: Gunn clarified that the announcement of Henry Cavill’s return as Superman occurred on the day his and Peter Safran’s deal to head DC Studios closed, creating an “unfair” situation for Cavill due to a “vacuum” of information at the time. Gunn and Safran met with Cavill, who was “an absolute gentleman,” and asked only to reveal his departure himself. Gunn also stated that he would “love to put Henry in something” else in the DC universe, indicating it would “absolutely not” be too confusing to cast him in another role.
Hall of Justice Mural: The mural in the Hall of Justice depicts characters such as Jay Garrick (Flash), Alan Scott (Green Lantern), and Doctor Fate. Gunn said he “was picking my favorite my favorite children” when choosing these characters.
Villain Considerations: Brainiac was considered as a villain, as was Ultra-Man/Bizarro, but Gunn left the possibility of Bizarro appearing open-ended.
Themes of Adoption: Gunn noted that themes of adoption resonate with him, as he has “a lot of adopted kids in my family” and “a few of my best friends are adopted”.
Future DC Universe Projects and Plans
Next Superman Project: Gunn confirmed he is writing another “Superman involved story,” which is “not exactly a Superman sequel per se,” but rather “the next one you direct”. He emphasised that Superman “is very important” and that it isn’t “Batman vs Superman” or “World’s Finest Batman Superman”. A timeline for an announcement is “sooner than later”.
Batman Projects: Matt Reeves has delivered the script for “Batman 2”, which Gunn “like[s]” and is “on track for that release date”. There will be “two Batman running around,” but “probably not” in the same calendar year, to avoid confusion. Gunn did not confirm if “Brave and the Bold” would introduce the DCU Batman, nor did he discuss casting beyond acknowledging Alan Ritchson as a fan-favourite suggestion. He did state the need to “differentiate in some substantial way the take on Batman” to avoid confusion.
Supergirl: “Supergirl” is “in the can”. Lobo, played by Jason Momoa, and Krypto will appear in “Supergirl”.
Peacemaker 2: “Peacemaker 2” is described as a “direct followup to Superman” and is “very R-rated,” featuring characters like Rick Flag, Hawk Girl, Maxwell Lord, and Guy Gardner.
Lanterns: “Lanterns” is “coming out” and will feature Guy Gardner.
Clayface: “Clayface” is “about to go into production” with James Watkins directing and Mike Flanagan’s script, which sold Gunn on the project. He described it as a “total horror movie” that “could be a Blumbhouse you know big budget horror film” but is “within the DCU”.
Wonder Woman: Gunn indicated that there is a “take” and “direction” for a “Wonder Woman” script that “feels distinct from what we’ve seen before”.
Other Projects:
– Flash and Aquaman: New “Flash” or “Aquaman” projects are “a little ways off,” probably not in the “next two years”.
– The Authority: This project has been a “rough road,” harder to crack, and the writer has moved to another unannounced DCU project.
– Swamp Thing: James Mangold has not yet delivered a script due to other commitments, but discussions are ongoing.
– Sergeant Rock: Gunn is “hugely” excited about “Sgt. Rock” and has hopes it will come back around relatively soon, though Luca (likely director Luca Guadagnino) is no longer involved.
Collaborations and Filmmaking Philosophy
Gunn expressed admiration for filmmakers like Matt Reeves, Greta Gerwig, and Ryan Coogler, who make “big movies that still have themselves in it” and take “risks in the area of spectacle film”. He appreciates “good disposable” popcorn movies that aren’t “all the same”. He also shared a personal reflection on balancing his life with his work, acknowledging that kickstarting the DCU enterprise required him to do “too much”.
