“Avengers: Endgame” Writers Have Ideas for Superman Movie

In an interview with Screen Rant, “Avengers: Endgame” screenwriters Stephen McFeely and Christopher Markus were asked if they had a chance to write a script for a DC Comics character which one they’d choose… They quickly responded with “Superman”, saying they believe giving him the Captain America treatment would be the way to go.

Feely explained, “I certainly think that Captain America shows that there are certainly ways to do a really good Superman movie in this day. You don’t have to dirty him up. You don’t have get rid of his ernestness.”

“The Christopher Reeve Superman is one of my favorite movies, and so that’s one we certainly borrow from all the time.”

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Kal-Ed
Member
Kal-Ed

Superman 1978 has been an already laid down Roadmap for successful superhero movies. Stick to the essense and the core of the character and don’t veer off course while still making him relevant and a reason to aspire to. With the right creative people at the helm nothing can go wrong. If they get the chance to make things right, by all means. I just hope Henry would continue and deliver a Superman film worthy of its story.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I heard a rumor that J.J Abrams might be involved in the next Superman film. If it’s true, is there any idea if he’s keeping Cavill or is he recasting. Because I’ve been hearing some say yes and others say no. So I don’t know who to believe.

Clark_Jo
Member
Clark_Jo

I seriously doubt it.

lcmcbain
Member
lcmcbain

I’ve read the same rumors about JJ…no thanks. WB just does not get it. I’m not sure I’ve seen more incompetence with regards to Superman than the folks at WB/DC. smh

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Would he use his FlyBy script if the rumor is true?

Adekis
Member
Adekis

Seems doubtful to me. I wouldn’t mind if JJ did a Superman movie. In some ways I think his particular brand of dumb fun is exactly what Superman as a franchise needs right now. But FlyBy was a bad story idea. Wasn’t FlyBy going to reveal that Krypton hadn’t really been destroyed and Luthor was Kryptonian too? Definitely seems like a script that belongs to the “Daredevil” and “Ghost Rider” era of comic book movies.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

FlyBy would have been made like fifteen years ago or so. So I’m guessing what would’ve worked back then might not possibly fly now. Pardon the pun, ha ha ha.
It would have FlyBy the theaters. He he he.
Ok I’ll stop now.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

I don’t want JJ anywhere near Superman. He’s not as great as everyone thinks.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I have a question about that. Was he confirmed to be attached to a Superman movie or is it just theoretical for now? I haven’t heard anything official about JJ so I was wondering if anyone really knew.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

He signed a huge contract with WB and people are speculating that he wants (or they want) to head up the DC division. He has a very close relationship with Matt Reeves as well and thoughts are that they both want to start they’re own versions of Superman and Batman together. The contract signing is very much real… what the deal includes is still unknown

Clark_Jo
Member
Clark_Jo

Sounds like they get it.
CPT America in the MCU was a better Superman than Superman was in the DCU.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I agree Clark_Jo.

redcape
Member
redcape

Sorry but comparing the two is IMO, a cheap comparison.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

It’s just an opinion redcape.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

What makes it cheap? They nailed the essence of the character and didn’t shy away from who he was and even leaned into it. Just because you don’t like the mcu doesn’t mean it’s not a fair comparison. Superman died in BVS and I felt nothing which is an absolute failure on the part of the writers and director…even less when he came back because they didn’t do anything with his character. They’ve shied away trying to turn him into something else. I connect with Superman from these films because I already love the character and he’s my favorite hands… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

Well…..YOU may have felt nothing, FINE. It make more sense that you lost your capacity or desire to watch and or pay attention to the rest of BvS early in the movie. In other words you copped an negative attitude early on and nothing was going make difference from that time on. Capt America is in no way shape or form SUPERMAN! And I never said specifically I didn’t like MCU. I said for the most part their characters are boring. They may have nailed his essence but in comparison to Superman especially on the big screen, he’s totally second… Read more »

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

Well considering they’ve stated that they modeled him after Christopher Reeves Superman, it’s not that far fetched. And I don’t hate BvS like you claim, I even own the extended cut and have seen it multiple times and I find things to enjoy about it, but I didn’t check out of the movie as you’re claiming. Why would I sit through a movie if I wasn’t going to pay attention?! That would be dumb. I’ve stated multiple times that I think they were clearly going in one direction at the end of MOS with his character and then completely brought… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

sunde….I certainly don’t disagree with what you’ve said. Some of the things I saw differently. BvS by Henry’s own words was more of an introduction of Batman. However there was a lot in that movie that was supposed to cross into Snyder’s JL. The only thing I can’t stand about watching that movie is when Superman gets killed. And as it turned out if they had brought him back with some emotional presents in the JL it would have tempered my feelings about that and made watching it at least bearable. But since that never happened in the JL we… Read more »

Clark_Jo
Member
Clark_Jo

Cool

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

1000% agree

MattComics
Member
MattComics

I like very much that their first impulse is not darkness or deconstruction.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

So basically it would mean going back to the basics of Superman movies if I understand this correctly.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

The destruction is fine in small bits, but the more egregious violation to me was the blatant disregard for saving lives. I’ve heard it argued over and over that it’s his first day on the job and that he saved the pilot and that’s fair enough, but I’ve never read a Superman story where he wasn’t putting the people first. Even when he’s a self doubting or mopey Superman, he cares about people. I still cringe at that scene where Superman jumps over the tanker in MOS. It would have gone a long long looooong way to show him moving… Read more »

JasEl
Member
JasEl

^this^

redcape
Member
redcape

First off….at that point he wasn’t Superman. He was Clark or Kal. I think you got massively ahead of your self in your expectations of who or where his character was supposed to be in various parts of the movie.(many did as well) And you obviously appear to have resented that. I think your attitude more so suggests that when it comes down to it, you just don’t care for this character being involved in what revolves around realistic environments. And Snyder delivered that in spades. But look…..I don’t think any of these are perfect. After you see them a… Read more »

Marnoman
Member
Marnoman

But that’s just it. He WAS Superman. He is supposed to be Superman from the moment we see him. It’s not about what name he is referred to or what he is wearing. He should possess the personality, heart, care and morals of Superman no matter what point in the story it is. That’s why Sundevil82 bringing up Steve Rogers jumping onto the grenade is a great example. He was Captain America before he ever had the strength or the costume. He was always Captain America at heart. I don’t think it’s expectations being massively outrageous to expect going in… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

He may have Superman to the audience, BUT in the movie, he wasn’t even called that to his face. It was about his evolving into being that. It wasn’t about what he should have been, it was about what he was going to be. A lot of people expected him to automatically be Superman the moment he showed up but in this version, he wasn’t. And that was a big point that wasn’t appreciated or liked by many.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

So basically what you’re saying is, that they gave him the Smallville treatment in his first two films? That he’s wearing the S, but no one is calling him Superman? With the exception of the no tights no flights rule, since he did have tights and he did fly. But he wasn’t called Superman till JL, is that what you mean?

JasEl
Member
JasEl

It’s not about what he’s called, it’s about who he is as a person. There is no difference between Clark Kent and Superman as a person. No matter what he’s called Kal-el/Clark Kent/Superman is a good person that is full of hope for mankind, compassion and a drive to do what is right. That’s what they mean when they are saying the Cap Amer treatment. Even before Steve was Captain American, even before he had powers, he just wanted to do the right thing. He had the courage of his convictions and the willingness to see them through. Even if… Read more »

JasEl
Member
JasEl

I swear you are actively trying not to see the point. It’s not about what he’s called. It’s not even about what he’s supposedly evolving into. It’s that he doesn’t evolve. At all. His character does not progress through out Snyder’s run.And even that really isn’t right either. He shouldn’t have to evolve into a good person, a compassionate person. At no point in the snyder movies does he ever look like he even wants to be a hero. He never acts like Superman. Everything he does looks like a chore, that’s when he can even be bothered to do… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Are you talking to me or redcape? I’m not sure which of us you’re talking to, but like I said before, I was trying to see it from his point of view. Not that that’s my point of view. I’m just trying to view this from another perspective is all I’m saying. I do agree with alot of your points on this topic, however I’m trying to see this through a different perspective. A perspective of someone else. So that maybe I could understand it better. Again I may not agree with the perspective, but I want to see if… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

Jasel…I see the point. But as far as I’m that has nothing to do with it. What you want is a particular version of him. And that doesn’t fall in line with what Snyder was trying to accomplish. Apparently Kal/Clark was just supposed to magically become this virtues hero the moment he showed up in costume. Well that was yesteryear Superman and the task was to update the entire character into something that would be more relatable and dare I say believable to today’s times. Whether or not that was accomplished is subject to opinions and much discussion. As far… Read more »

Superman2878
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Superman2878

Thank you for clarifying what you meant by the name of Superman redcape in MOS and B V S. I think I understand a bit better by what you meant about his name.

redcape
Member
redcape

sorry about the spelling. couldn’t go back and edit!

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

No problem. It happens to everyone.

JasEl
Member
JasEl

No, I didn’t expect him to magically become a virtuous hero the moment he put on the suit, I expect him to have ALWAYS been a hero at heart, because that is who he is. The suit, the name, all of it is irrelevant, because at his core he is a good man who wants to do what is right and we never got that. But what do you expect when Johnathan Kent tells him he should have let a busload of kids die, or when Martha tells him to just give it up, these people suck anyway? Making him… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

You know what? I’m going to assume that you and redcape are talking to each other and that I’m not a part of the conversation. So, I’m out. I think that it will be less confusing for me anyway. So good luck to the both of you in this debate.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

I’ve always disliked this idea of a ‘5 movie arc’ they were supposedly pushing. His character progressed slightly toward a more traditional Superman by the end of MAn of steel, but then he went back to being mopey and unsure of himself in the sequel and remained stagnant the whole film. That’s not an arc so I don’t buy that story for a second. It’s one thing that they had Martha and Jonathan giving the awful advice, but they could have at least had Clark push back on it or state why he does what he does instead of just… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I have a question for everyone. Who do you think would make for a good director for a Superman film? This question is for everyone, so feel free to chime in and say whoever you think would do a good job. I’m curious to see any suggestions for the job.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

They already passed on both of them, but I would have Liked Matthew Vaughn and I was really hoping for Christopher McQuarrie. I think they really messed up not taking advantage of the Mission Impossible success. At this point I’ll take any competent writer or director. I know at one point Aaron Sorkin was humoring the idea of writing a superhero movie. I would love to hear his dialogue in a Superman film, especially with the newsroom scenes. AT this point I’d take any director who understands the character or is willing to do his due diligence. Any director who… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Interesting picks sundevil82. I’m not really sure who’d I’d pick. But I would hope that it’s someone who knows Superman’s history and then would apply that research to a Superman film. I’m not saying to bring back any previous incarnations, but to look back on Superman’s history through the comics as well as other media and basically take the core of who Superman is and apply that to a film. I don’t know who I would be a good pick though. Hopefully it would be someone who is a Superman fan, and not just a director who wants to make… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Would anyone else like to make a suggestion on who they would like to see as the next director for a Superman movie? The more the merrier. I like hearing ideas.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I remember hearing something about Matthew Vaughn a while back sundevil82. If Vaughn ever made a Superman movie I’d give it a try.

JasEl
Member
JasEl

Problem with that is he didn’t learn the value of life. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 people he killed in BvS and it’s been a while since I watched it, but He smashes through a jet, which explodes, nobody ejects from it and the guy holding Lois hostage, no way he survives getting smashed through a few stone walls

redcape
Member
redcape

First off your desires as well as others regarding a version of Superman obviously wasn’t what MoS was about. Secondly I’m glad you brought up that conversation. BUT…he didn’t tell Clark to let them die. When Clark asked, “what was I supposed to do, let them die?” JK answered,…”maybe”. But wasn’t it ironic to the max that a few scenes later during the tornado, that the end result of that conversation was Clark letting his father die. I would not argue that scene along with 3 or 4 others should not have been presented the way they were. I don’t… Read more »

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

Goyer definitely needed some rewrites in the script or at least a partner to iron out a lot of those ideas. Zack is more a visuals guy and I don’t think he focuses on story or dialogue as much as he should. In fact I don’t think he’s that articulate in his writing, but I will give him credit where it’s due with the visuals. Yes I would agree with you on those 3 or 4 questionable instances in the film. MOs had potential to be excellent but nobody pushed back on Goyers script. Personally I think he had developed… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

Sunde….The third of the Batman series rode heavily on the coat tails of the second. It was full of crap from the beginning to the end but hey…..it made a ton of money. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that a vast majority of the successful movies are successful solely on a level of personal appeal rather quality. That’s whats made Marvel IMO, successful.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

I’ll admit that Dark Knight Rises was the weakest of the 3 and was also the least Batman Of the trilogy, but it is still a well made movie. Christopher Nolan is one of the tier directors we have right now. That’s why critics like that movie because while it’s far fetched and whatnot, it’s still put together well from cinematography to editing and all that. I would never put the dark knight trilogy and the marvel movies in the same category though. Marvel is more serialized film making and is more reminiscent to a show with Kevin fiege as… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I was just trying to understand what redcape meant about the Superman name really. The only thing that I could compare it to was Smallville. Well…… somewhat comepare it to. It’s like comparing apples to oranges really I think. Maybe. I don’t know, I could be wrong on the whole comparison thing. Just trying to see if they have any similarities really. Again I don’t know.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I know that this question might seem out of the blue, but since Goyer’s Krypton series has Doomsday, is it possible that they might have the Krypton series be part of the upcoming crossover? I mean would they use Doomsday from the Krypton series as part of the crossover event? I don’t think that they will, and it’s probably most highly unlikely, but I was wondering what everyone else thought.

afriend
Member
afriend

They’re right…

redcape
Member
redcape

Point(s) taken BUT…..that’s all, “point(s)” taken. Giving him the Capt. America treatment means what? IMO, he was not that exciting to see.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I don’t know if this is what they mean, but it sounds to me like they would emphasize the Truth, Justice, and the American way part of Superman’s character for a new Superman movie. Seeing how character wise Superman and Captain America are similar in that regard. Freedom, Truth, and Justice are at the hart of both characters. Obviously everything thing else about Superman, his powers, origin, and story are different from Captain America’s. At least that’s what I’m understanding from this article. I could be wrong though. I don’t know the minds that run the business of Superman’s movies.… Read more »

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

Okay… arguably the most popular character in that franchise?? That is definitely an opinion in the minority.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I’m a bit confused sundevil82. Were you talking to me about the arguably the most popular character comment or was it someone else?

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

I was responding to redcape

redcape
Member
redcape

In that STYLE of MCU franchise, yes. The only reason was, he was included in the pancake mix of an over whelming amount of characters that they cleverly disguised by jumping from one scene to another.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Thanks for clarifying sundevil82.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Sometimes I get confused if someone is responding to any of my comments or not. Thanks for letting me know.

Clark_Jo
Member
Clark_Jo

Giving him the Capt. America treatment means what?

It means he actually believes in what he is doing and wants to make a difference in the world rather than just questioning himself and not believing in anything.

Adekis
Member
Adekis

I kind of like a “back to basics” Superman, where what that means is socially and politically conscious engagement with real world issues, like in the early Golden Age and several early George Reeves stories. I’d love a remake of “Superman and the Mole Men”… But I feel like nobody is very likely to go that route.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

How about Superman vs the Atom man? A remake of the classic Superman movie where he meets Luthor for the first time. Although the only problem I see with that is there has been alot of Superman movies where Luthor is the main villain.
Although a Superman movie done in a 1940’s/1950’s style could be very interesting.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

I feel that’s missing the forest for the trees, Spidey… the problem is not setting or aesthetic. It’s the writing of the character. We more or less got a 40’s style aesthetic in SR anyways and I don’t think it did that movie any favors. We still have yet to get the definitive modern age Luthor on screen yet. The closest we have is Rosenbaum, who is hands down the best Luthor, but that was tv.

ps… when I call you Spidey, it’s meant to be a term of endearment not insult! haha

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I understand sundevil82. It’s cool to still call me spidey. I don’t mind.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Could a Superman movie be successful if it had the writers from Smallville?

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I was wondering since they had success in the tv genre, could they apply that same formula for success for a movie?

cpm72586
Member
cpm72586

Finally, people who at least don’t think Superman needs all this angst added to him or that he’s too much of a boy scout. It’s a step in the right direction at least as that nonsense has been the prevailing thought it seems for the past 25 plus years from anyone involved or potentially involved with a Superman film. Also, this is exactly what we need to hopefully get a new Superman film sooner rather then later. People who have had some success, and have an interest in doing a film. You’d think WB would be very interested in meeting… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I was thinking about Superman fan films. I know that they aren’t big production films and that they are made by the fans, and aren’t official Superman films, but I’ve seen alot of really good fan films over the years, and I really do think that maybe that there should be more of them. Does anyone know of any upcoming Superman fan films?

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I wish that I could make a Superman fan film. I have so many ideas for a fan film, just no way to make them happen.

approuty
Member

No wonder Marvel movies are much popular than DC movies. They really know how to treat their characters right. It would be cool if those wirters work for DC, but I doublt it.

redcape
Member
redcape

Well most the the Marvel characters had never been treated to the big screen in the capacity they did. They were new and got the attention. That’s the ONLY reason.

JasEl
Member
JasEl

Nonsense, most of them were second tier characters even in the comics. They were done well on screen and they stayed true to the comics in characterization.

If it was because they were never on screen before then Daredevil would have been a blockbuster. Elektra would have been in the billion dollor club. Or Meteorman, or Punisher, or any of the other dozen superhero movies that were out before them.

redcape
Member
redcape

True to character??? You mean Hulk in a hot tub? IronMan2, gets drunk and pees in the suit?

JasEl
Member
JasEl

Clearly you never read the Planet Hulk storyline because that movie followed a lot of it pretty closely.
And yes Tony Stark is a drunk in the comics. So much so that Rhodey took over for him as Ironman at one point. In fact, Demon in a Bottle is one of Ironman’s most famous story arcs.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

I mean… lex peed in a jar so do we really want to go there, Redcape?

JasEl
Member
JasEl

HA

redcape
Member
redcape

I didn’t care about the pee. It’s the character they have doing it. Lex isn’t by any stretch the focus of a superhero movie. Your only comparable point is “pee”.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

I don’t remember any version of Lex that would do that so yes I would say that’s very out of character. I don’t care about the pee either, you brought that up and we’re making some sort of point about how iron man doing it was out of character when Jas El told you that tony being a drunk is very much in character. I don’t know If I buy that Lex wasn’t a focal point of the movie. He’s only the character driving the whole plot of the film and Superman’s most famous adversary.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

It’s honestly not that hard… be true to the character, don’t shy away from who he is and write him with personality and charm. Doesn’t need to be campy and can be absolutely placed in a realistic setting. Singer and Snyder’s Supermen were among the many incarnations that have apologized for the character. They listened to the vocal minority of people who think he’s boring and unrelateable . What the captain America writers did right that Superman writers have done and continue to do wrong is emphasize the Man and not the abilities. ‘I’m just a kid from Brooklyn’ can… Read more »

MattComics
Member
MattComics

Also whoever does the next Superman movie can’t get into trying to over compensate for those who love trotting out tired ass old chestnuts about the character about him being “too powerful” “too good” too this or that.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

Abso-freakin-lutely!! One of the biggest cop outs

redcape
Member
redcape

Can that really be done? I don’t think this character can be done in a way that it will satisfy and attract all sides.

redcape
Member
redcape

“the most generic version” I’m not sure if I understand that but in MoS he was any thing but generic. And they covered everything except him in the bathroom.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

They checked all the boxes but we didn’t get any insight into him like we did for Zod or Batman. Again, there was nothing in the films that made me say ‘that is specifically intrinsic to Superman.’ Or ‘that is something only Superman would do or say.’ If you took away the labels and called him Flying Man you wouldn’t know the difference.

NeoRanger
Member
NeoRanger

Eh, I’m not crazy about the idea. They did a good job with Cap, but I’m more for character-driven stories, than the traditional super-hero format. Not that I think they’d do a bad job at it, I’d just rather have something else. Also, realistically, we’re looking at a reboot whenever it happens (and if I was in charge, I’d reboot as well), but there are ways to pick up from the Snyderverse Superman and make something out of him. If WB hadn’t shoved Batman and the Justice League down our throats back in 2016, I’d have been very interested to… Read more »

Super Kal
Member
Super Kal

sounds like these guys got the right idea

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

In my honest opinion, I don’t see them moving forward with a sequel to MOS. By the time Henry is done with his role as Sherlock, to much time would have passed. Plus the guy has to keep working, so most likely he will be picking up other roles. As for the people in charge of the current movies, it sure looks like they are distancing themselves from Snyder’s and Cavill’s Superman. I believe that Pattinson’s casting as the new Batman, is evidence that we will be getting a new actor for Superman. And that it won’t be to long… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

I believe your right. If you look at all the attachments from MoS and BvS, would they be back as well? How would it look with Henry returning in that role with an entirely different cast? Different Lois, different Perry, different everything else. And to top all that off, expecting Henry to act like a totally new and different Superman. I hate to say it but when you look at all the attempt’s so far with Superman, SR and the three from Snyder, all four haven’t gone over with the movie audiences as well as expected. Then there’s the money.… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

Looks like we’re back to the old days of waiting for a new Superman film.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I have a feeling that it will be a long while before we see a new Superman film….. a long while. I wouldn’t be surprised if we will be waiting fifteen to twenty years for a new film. Yup….. A long time. Back to the old days of rumors that lead to nothing, and a whole lot of waiting. Maybe I’m wrong. Who knows? I could be wrong.

Kal-Elvis
Member

While I don’t want a Reeve rehash, they’ve certainly got the right idea in general. All this heavy-handed self-doubt in an attempt to make him more relatable just doesn’t work (generally).

That said, I think Patty Jenkins and Allan Heinberg (with some comics writers in there as well) would be the best to “right the ship” for Superman. They’ve shown they can combine action and dramatic tension with doses of levity and wonder without it becoming a joke-fest.

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

Kal, you’re always able to articulate my rambling thoughts into just a few sentences haha. I’ve never understood how writers don’t understand that there’s a vast middle ground where Superman can exist between realism and fantasy… serious and light hearted. It doesn’t have to swing to one extreme or the other, but a happy medium can exist and that’s what most of us fans would like. I also do not want a rehash if the Reeve era but I also don’t want extreme darkness like we got in BvS, aesthetically nor thematically. I honestly thought MOS had the right look… Read more »

Kal-Elvis
Member

Honestly, I think Snyder is the reason for us feeling it needs to be stated. He made a grittier, more “realistic” take (which I would qualify as realism from an adolescent perspective, but still) and when he took flak for the way he did it, his response way “Oh, they only want Reeve,” which became the default setting for push-back against criticism. It shouldn’t have to be stated, but because that narrative took hold, it does. Superman is many things, but I think his greatest appeal will generally be to the very young and to more settled adults. Not that… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

I think “re-hash” the Reeves era is a tad bit to harsh. The reason why they paralleled off that in SR was because that’s what people were still relating Superman to. Seemed like the obvious path at the time. And it might have worked if Singer had stayed true to that. Instead he veered off with the, gone for 5 years,the child, and what Superman did and other scenes. Plus he didn’t get into some big battle with a villain. Then the movie just ended with him flying off. As a WB rep had said, “SR didn’t position his character… Read more »

Kal-Elvis
Member

Oh, I didn’t intend “Reeve rehash” to be an indictment of Superman Returns. I’m just saying that I like the idea of borrowing overall color and tonal ideas (in places) for inspiration in a modern context, as opposed to just copying what came before. I agree about SR being both too tied to Reeve for what it was trying to do and not staying close enough if they were truly trying to tie to Reeve – as much as I’d like something new, I think a continuation of the Reeve chronology *can* work, they just have to be a lot… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

You know over the years we’ve seen, whether or not on TV or the big screen, several different versions of Superman. Different versions by my definition is having been character additions to and along side his character. These additions have been a source of topics when it’s come to discussion. We certainly saw them in SR and most recently in MoS, BvS and JL. And they haven’t exactly produced positive results. I want to see another Superman adventure on the big screen as bad as anybody but when you look at where we are and how we got here, can… Read more »

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

Perhaps the best route is to do a lower budgeted film with lower stakes. I have never minded them adding new layers to his character with each interpretation and I manage to find elements I like about every iteration, but since the last two versions (Routh and Cavill) have been mostly stoic, in the next film, if it’s cavill or someone else, I’d like Superman to have more of an outgoing personality. Doesn’t have to be smiling or saving cats, but I want him to have more to say. I don’t think anyone would argue against having a more charismatic… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

I’m not all together sure the movie audience’s lack of connection was actually towards Superman and not just the over all tone of each of them. It seems like a role of the dice now a day as to the appeal factor. Who would have thought a character like Deadpool would have gone over the way it did? IMO this is somewhat of mess we’re in. And who knows maybe Snyder’s version of the JL might have made it worse. If they’re going to precede with this character there’s going to be a need for people that know the difference… Read more »

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

Tone was definitely a factor, but Superman’s attitude and lack of personality was also brought up quite often. I just don’t see how giving him more to say and making him more charismatic could hurt the chances of the film. I’ve gotten the impression that the creators of the last two iterations were afraid to do so and again I feel it goes back to them thinking the character isn’t cool or that hes altruism is outdated. As far as Deadpool goes, they stayed true to the character and gave us an entertaining film. I know he’s not your cup… Read more »

JasEl
Member
JasEl

You bring up Deadpool alot, but he’s a prime example of what happens when you stay true to character. And he is.

Look what happened with XO: Wolverine, he was unrecognizable, as were most of those characters in that movie, and it bombed. Then he gets his own movie and it’s ripped right from the pages and then it’s the second most successful “R” rated movie of all time and one of the most successful movies in the X_Men franchise. People have expectations, these are pre-established characters, they already have well known personalities. If they are unrecognizable they won’t perform.

redcape
Member
redcape

I HAVE brought up Deadpool in past topics. I’m not well versed on a lot of past Wolverine comic stories. But if you’re referring to the last R rated Wolverine movie where a 10 or 12 year old girl that has his same claws, diced several people up like bell peppers, I found it strange that the critics thought so highly of it. That was “true” to character? It appears that Marvel can do no wrong no matter how distorted their actual characters are. I’ve got several friends that have been long time Marvel fans and they all tell me… Read more »

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

First… x men up until now have been part of the Fox brand… Not marvel studios. It’s even it’s own thing up until now. Second.. X-23 is the girl and she’s been a character for quite a while now. Third we weren’t even talking about The movie Logan, we were talking about X men Origins: Wolverine where Deadpool was a character. I feel like we’re entering into a bunch of ‘whataboutism’ territory here. Fourth… critics thought highly of the movie because it was a well made film. Aren’t you usually a champion of realism in your films? Wouldn’t people getting… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

Thanks for pointing out my ignorance regarding the card shuffling of Marvel characters. But my main point was the rational with the critics and some people as well,..in which who and what gets the admiration and who and what doesn’t. A young girl in an R rated movie that dices up people gets high fives from some people and critics but in MoS the great fight scene with Zod gets little more than a tepid response. Too much action and even though not shown, gets a thumbs down for the mental images of people that were hurt or worse.(only two… Read more »

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

Again, it goes back to the filmmaking. Snyder is cool at visuals but not the best director. He’s not on par with a Christopher Nolan or a James Mangold. He’s just not. I like man of steel a lot, but it’s poorly edited, rushed in some scenes, the fight at the end goes to long… and Snyder clearly doesn’t know what to edit out of his films and what to keep. Hence why there are so many directors cuts of his films. A seasoned director knows what to keep and what to edit out. For me, I thought the krypton… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

I would make one other point here. It would appear that the director of movies that don’t go over as planned are subject to the old saying, “the captain goes down with the ship”. As you’ve said Snyder is good with the visuals. BUT…when the movie is completed(or basicialy done) it would make sense that it’s previewed by people that are tuned in to how the character(s) or movies theme comes across. So at some point in this example, while MoS is being previewed no one stands up and tells Snyder the scene with Clark standing there and watching his… Read more »

sundevil82
Member
sundevil82

I’m in total agreement with you here. All we ever heard about with both Man of Steel and BvS was that they got ‘standing ovations’ by those who watched them. So either they were screening them to the wrong people or screening them to people who were afraid to speak up. Yes that scene with Jonathan Kent should have been caught early on or at least fixed in a way that worked better… as it stands it’s one of the most awkward and clunky parts of the film. This along with the Martha scene are instances where Its obvious what… Read more »

redcape
Member
redcape

I really do like MoS flaws and all. I haven’t seen it in a few months and am gearing up to see it within the next few weekends. But here’s a couple other scenes that followed what we talked about. A short time later when him and Lois meet at the cemetery he tells Lois, “I LET MY FATHER DIE”. Good god what a stupid line! The tavern bully. Bully goes out and sees his quarter million dollar log hauler destroyed! It’s right out front and NO ONE else see’s or hears anything before he does? Ridiculous! Lois gets a… Read more »

Kal-Elvis
Member

Yeah, I think whoever WB gets to screen their superhero stuff has the same “the character is the problem” mindset that WB seems to have. Which is crazy, but seems to be their pattern (at least with Superman). If I might comment on one other thing – I think the reason that the violence in Deadpool and Logan works for people and doesn’t in MoS is due to two things: character and knowledge of character. The violence/etc in Deadpool and Logan is in keeping with the tone of those books and is fairly true to how the characters and books… Read more »

JasEl
Member
JasEl

exactly

redcape
Member
redcape

I didn’t mind the violence in either Logan or Deadpool. But for what little graphical violence there was in MoS and BvS and what there actually was, it was made to seem like they were totally out of line with it.

Kal-Elvis
Member

I don’t necessarily think it was the violence in and of itself – it the character growth/etc had been there, if they made a solid effort to show him learning and becoming Superman, I think people would have been let more of the rest go. I actually enjoyed the newer TMNT films even though I hated the look and parts of the plot, because the characters were well constructed.

Imo, Nando V Movies’s rewrite of MoS (you can find it on YouTube) turns it into the film it really should have been.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

So we’ve reached 100 comments. Been a while since the number of comments had gotten this high.

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

So I guess that the comments are now slowing down.

redcape
Member
redcape

Anybody else read what Kevin Smith has recently said about the Snyder cut of JL? According to him there is a cut. But it’s in a form that we’ve previously discussed. Missing scenes that make it a complete movie. So watching something like that would be odd to say the least. Probably amount to watching scenes that just end without any continuity as to making a complete movie. If what he said was true then going back to the WB’s saying it was unwatchable was correct in one sense. But not saying it was unwatchable because it wasn’t finished was… Read more »

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I did hear something on YouTube about that redcape. I would like to know where Kevin Smith got that information.

JasEl
Member
JasEl

He’s in the industry for one, for another he’s close friends with Ben Affleck

Superman2878
Member
Superman2878

I see