Kryptonian Council
Kryptonian Council
The Staff of the Superman Homepage Speak Out
[Date: March 2006]Hey, folks! Welcome to the Kryptonian Council! This is a free-form discussion where I and members of the Superman Homepage writing team will be talking freely about issues that affect the site and Superman in general. It's a little like Radio KAL, only it's more free-form. You'll find typos, off the cuff remarks. It's the website at its rawest, and it's supposed to be that way. Everything with a grain of salt, and humor, all the while confronting the issues of concern to a Superman fan. It's a way to extend the idea behind Radio KAL to multiple people, without having a bunch of people talking over each other, and we hope to make it a regular fixture here at the Superman Homepage, or at least a fixture for every time something major happens in the Superman world.
This time around we take a look at the 5th issue of the huge DC Universe event "Infinite Crisis". If you have suggestions for future topics, please send them in to either Steve Younis or Neal Bailey. Enjoy!
| Steve: | Welcome to another Superman Homepage Kryptonian Council meeting. This time around we're talking "Infinite Crisis #5" |
| Barry: | That was of course Steve Younis - this is Barry Freiman - who else is here? |
| Neal: | Neal Bailey, otherwise known as Garth |
| Justin: | Justin "NotSuper" Adams. |
| Aaron: | Aaron (CyberV) Thall, token Marvel fan |
| Barry: | i wouldnt call u a token - more the devil's advocate |
| Aaron: | Or the devil, going by the message boards |
| Barry: | Well into the issue i have to say this was the least thrilling of the 5 so far to me |
| Aaron: | But still landmark |
| Justin: | I was surprised that the Earth-2 Superman wasn't shown as stronger. |
| Steve: | Stronger? |
| Justin: | In the original Crisis, he was nearly Kal-El's equal. |
| Aaron: | I'm surprised they killed Lois |
| Steve: | Let's go through it from the beginning of the issue, shall we? |
| Barry: | actually the earth 2 superman is not supposed to be as strong as the precrisis earth 1 man of steel he cant fly and his power levels are lower |
| Neal: | I'm actually disappointed per my review they didn't have a bigger fight if they had to have an arbitrary blow-out |
| Justin: | I'm guessing that his lack of strength had to do with the "mind-merging" thing. |
| Justin: | He can fly. |
| Justin: | His power levels developed slowly over time. |
| Justin: | Check up on it. |
| Aaron: | But they are diminished by age |
| Barry: | ur rite he was a leaper at first then he learned to fly |
| Justin: | They never said they diminished. |
| Neal: | Both the main books and Infinite Crisis showed a LOT of great character moments, but very little of the actual blows, which is kind of ironic, because one of the main themes of the crisis is that too much time is spent on character |
| Neal: | catharsis |
| Justin: | If anything, he got stronger. |
| Aaron: | Implied in the first Crisis |
| Justin: | Still, he was nearly Kal-El's equal. |
| Justin: | And he hasn't aged since then. |
| Barry: | This fight in IC 5 is the fight that is taking place in the Superman titles |
| Neal: | I would postulate that they were about on even footing. That's where I'd put it. I mean, if not, Superman of our Earth wouldn't have had to fight him, he'd just put him down |
| Barry: | for anyone reading one or the other but not both |
| Neal: | Yes, Barry. Good clarification |
| Justin: | I thought Diana Prince's appearance and exit was too quickly done. |
| Steve: | Let's go through the issue shall we? |
| Justin: | Sure. |
| Neal: | I thought it was extraneous without a larger role to fill. |
| Neal: | Yes |
| Aaron: | I doubt it. Supeman wouldn't just put down a man who's mourning |
| Steve: | The church gathering at the beginning seemed out of place |
| Barry: | We start with a mass -- too much religion for a hero book? |
| Justin: | I liked the exchance between Ragman and Mr. Terrific. |
| Aaron: | It's a gathering for spiritual renewal. |
| Justin: | I'm neutral to the church thing itself. |
| Neal: | I don't think so. I mean, it didn't say "Superman is a Roman Catholic", it was talking about tertiary characters who aren't supposed to be representative of all people as the big three are |
| Aaron: | Not specifically a religious renewal |
| Neal: | I do think it was a bit harsh, heroes sitting in a church while the world burns |
| Barry: | I am glad that ragman's jewish heritage was addressed |
| Steve: | Yeah, but why are they sitting around in a church when they could be out helping people? |
| Neal: | When they can save folks |
| Neal: | Yeah, Barry, that was neat |
| Justin: | Good point. |
| Aaron: | Odd |
| Justin: | Maybe they were going for some kind of Kingdom Come vibe. |
| Aaron: | Also representative of why Superman2 thought the world was wrong |
| Neal: | It'd be different if it was the calm before the storm, but as Nightwing notes, chaos is ALL OVER |
| Neal: | And everyone's busy |
| Barry: | i agree on the mass - someone said earlier that this crisis is about re-emphasizing the action in comic books over the talk talk talk all the time |
| Steve: | Then we get a recap of Lois and Kal-L on the new Earth-2 |
| Barry: | and this issue starts with all the heroes obviously having learned nothing yet |
| Justin: | I was a little letdown Earth-2--but maybe that was the point. |
| Neal: | But really, there's been an awful lot of affirmation for the talk. I think it's Johns justifying the talk, when it comes down to it, and trying to point out that the naysayers who want only action have a doomed, former world |
| Justin: | It reminded me of that awful House of Wax Smallville episode. You know, the one with the fake school? |
| Neal: | I HAD REPRESSED THAT! ;) |
| Aaron: | So implausible that it's hurts the head? |
| Justin: | But the issue itself was good, I thought. |
| Aaron: | (pats Neal on head) Forget Lana, Neal. It will pass. |
| Steve: | Why would Lois and Superman be happy about an empty world? |
| Neal: | I think it was better than most stuff out there right now, but not up to snuff with the previous four |
| Aaron: | They wouldn't. Superman was desperate. |
| Aaron: | See, Superman 2 was the greatest hero ever |
| Aaron: | And he lost EVERYTHING |
| Aaron: | His worlds. |
| Barry: | well lois is teetering on the verge of a new adventure when she makes the leap to earth 2 so cant really go by her |
| Aaron: | His friends. His family |
| Neal: | Right, but so did Diana Prince...and she's not out to destroy an Earth |
| Barry: | and superman-2 is just focused on saving lois but really what that comes down to is hes having a hard time with the concept that humans die |
| Justin: | I'm hoping that we don't see Superboy-Prime put a fist through Alex's chest and become the new big bad. That'd be a letdown. |
| Aaron: | Everyone relied on Superman, not Wonder Woman |
| Steve: | OK, then we move on to the Batcave |
| Neal: | I think this is NOT the Superman he was before. He's become jaded, cynical, and borderline evil |
| Justin: | I don't buy that. |
| Aaron: | Delusional |
| Steve: | Booster Gold and the new Blue Beetle |
| Neal: | And the plug for the new Blue Beetle...why does he see Brother Eye? |
| Aaron: | Bring back Ted Kord. Nuff said |
| Aaron: | The new Beetle? I mistook him for the new Blue Ranger |
| Justin: | Seeing things in black and white doesn't make someone evil. Neither does being whiny and unable to make tough decisions. |
| Justin: | He's not Rorschach. |
| Neal: | Right, but when it makes you apt to destroy a world just to bring yours back...that's royally questionable to me |
| Aaron: | It IS nice to see Booster stepping up |
| Justin: | He seemed to want for Earth-2 to overwrite the world--like what happened to his. Delusional, perhaps. But nowhere near evil. |
| Neal: | Yeah...I just wonder why Batman isn't finding a consortium of the most tech oriented guys in the DCU instead of a ragtag group. It's not really Batman's style |
| Aaron: | Also nice to see Batman taken down a peg. |
| Justin: | That's always good--and I like Batman. |
| Aaron: | Forced to rely on someone totally new to clean up his mess |
| Neal: | If that's the case, if he is just trying to overwrite, that's fine. I think that has yet to be seen. I believe he'll be redeemed, personally, and that started this issue |
| Neal: | I'm wondering why Nightwing didn't meet up and work with Batman. |
| Neal: | Until Superboy arrives, he has no reason not to |
| Justin: | I still don't like the idea of Superboy-Prime being the main villain. But maybe I'm alone in that. |
| Barry: | what was nightwing doing alone in titans tower? |
| Aaron: | I find it's a refreshing twist |
| Barry: | he's not a titan |
| Neal: | I'm thinking he may not be the main villain. I think he's coming back ready and willing to help take Alex down. |
| Aaron: | He used to be a founding Titan |
| Justin: | Well, as Wally once said, "Once a Titan, always a Titan." |
| Barry: | so i used to be an Elk that's why i hang out in their club ? |
| Neal: | Yep |
| Justin: | This is true for Nightwing as well. |
| Steve: | So Luthor embracing Conner... interesting development... |
| Neal: | Heh. Well, that's a bit different. The Elks are not necessarily a super-hero group with members dying left and right...er... |
| Neal: | Actually, Steve, that's been building up in Teen Titans for years now |
| Aaron: | Creepy |
| Justin: | I wonder if Conner could grow up to be as smart as lex. |
| Aaron: | Is Luthor mother or father? |
| Neal: | He basically implanted commands in Superboy |
| Justin: | Think about that for a minute. |
| Barry: | anytime i hear someone in a comic say "my son..." like that i immediately think of brando's jorel |
| Barry: | and the parallels are there of course |
| Barry: | in this case |
| Neal: | I got a Vader vibe. I was just suit-happuy |
| Justin: | Yeah, that was cool. |
| Aaron: | I hate that damn uper powers figure |
| Justin: | That's pre-super powers. |
| Barry: | the purple green was never super powers |
| Justin: | Super Powers was the awesome battlesuit. |
| Barry: | i wish it had been :) |
| Neal: | It was Swan, I know, but I first saw it in Superfriends, that's why I said that....memory mistake. :) |
| Justin: | As for the main villain, I'm thinking it's either Alex or an Anti-Monitor possessed Superboy. |
| Neal: | I was five! I repent! |
| Aaron: | Superboy's already proven irredeamable |
| Justin: | That's what they said about Hal. |
| Steve: | So... can someone refresh our memory regarding Diana Prince? |
| Justin: | This is comics. |
| Neal: | I think Superboy is irredeemable, but that doesn't mean he can't make things right. I'm guessing Superboy will take out Alex next issue just in time for the Anti-Monitor to scream from the speed force |
| Barry: | The Earth-2 Diana Prince Trevor actually |
| Justin: | I doubt Kon-El will be dying since he seems to be one of Johns' favorites. |
| Barry: | this is the Wonder Woman who made her debut in the 40s |
| Aaron: | Wasn't she vaporized? |
| Neal: | Because if the Anti-Monitor isn't in the speed force, how did Superboy get that armor? |
| Barry: | at the end of crisis I, the earth-2 WW went to olympus with Steve Trevor of earth2 |
| Neal: | Right you are, Barry. |
| Justin: | I don't think anyone in comics is irredemable. The concept is anathema to the media form. Anyone can be written out of a bad situation. |
| Justin: | Yeah. |
| Barry: | the earth-I WW was vaporized in issue 12 and then re-created as the perez version of the character |
| Neal: | True, but punching off a head will take at least two Geoff Johns Miniseries to undo. Heh |
| Steve: | So, she came back, sacrificed her existence to help WW know what to do next? |
| Justin: | That death always confused me. |
| Justin: | Wonder Woman's, I mean. |
| Barry: | i think that she came back to tell wonder woman to adopt a secret identity of diana prince |
| Aaron: | God, all these alternate versions are confusing |
| Justin: | I'm glad i know all the history. Otherwise i might be totally lost. |
| Neal: | I think so. The sacrifice seemed kind of strange to me. Why not appear and whisper in Superman's ear about Alex Luthor. If you're omniscienct and want to sacrifice yourself, stop this before it starts.... |
| Justin: | But they've done a good job explaining things for the casual reader. |
| Neal: | I don't worry about people knowing the history. It's all online. One visit to wikipedia and you'll have all you need to know |
| Steve: | That's why we run these K Council meetings, to help others who are not so versed in the multiverse to understand what's happening |
| Neal: | That too. :) |
| Neal: | There are meetings like this across fandom just to help people figure it out |
| Barry: | Wonder Woman has been missing a human counterpoint for a long time - giving her back diana prince would tether her to humanity |
| Aaron: | I dunno. I hear that the original Wonder Woman is back, and I see a plug for the Wonder Woman season 1 dvd set |
| Neal: | That's part of the fun of being a comics geek as opposed to a paleo-botanist |
| Justin: | I stopped going to Wikipedia a while ago. But you're right, there are plenty of places to learn online. Rao bless the Internet. |
| Steve: | I know pushing a car on to Superman is kind of pointless, but I loved the homage |
| Neal: | I was so torn about that. Great homage, but seriously...very pointless |
| Justin: | He was angry. |
| Aaron: | And who cooked the hot dogs? |
| Justin: | Confused. |
| Justin: | Alex? |
| Barry: | pretzels i thought |
| Aaron: | Evil pretzles. |
| Neal: | I likened it in my review to how I feel. I mean, in Sacrifice, THAT is what happens when titans clash. Dark Knight Returns. All out. Not a few buildings falling over, not with two Supermen |
| Justin: | Maybe they're from Earth-3... |
| Justin: | The pretzels, I mean. |
| Barry: | i agree neal |
| Aaron: | Not like they had to holkd back, with the planet practically a giant ghost town |
| Steve: | Although Neal, the whole city was destroyed in a few minutes |
| Justin: | Yeah, two Supermen would be like World War 3. |
| Neal: | I expected NASTY stuff. Heat vision into retinas, super-speed searches for Kryptonite across the globe, vibrating to invisibility...the ball was dropped |
| Aaron: | If Sup[erman 1 was holding back, it's out of respect for the mourning |
| Neal: | That's true, Steve. |
| Barry: | we are all forgetting something pretty important here |
| Neal: | I guess it's less the damage quotient, more the execution of the beats |
| Barry: | 2 supermen together - |
| Steve: | Lois' body is still in the vicinity too |
| Justin: | I don't think he was holding back. |
| Barry: | we've already had 2 luthors together and 2 supergirl/powergirls's together |
| Barry: | and there's always a reaction |
| Justin: | The Earth-2 Superman has abilities he doesn't. |
| Neal: | There's that, too |
| Barry: | perhaps earth-2 superman's rationality is impacted by that |
| Justin: | He doesn't need air, for one. |
| Neal: | Super-hypnosis, super-ventriloquism...heh |
| Steve: | He does need air |
| Steve: | He can just hold his breath longer |
| Justin: | I mean the Earth-2 Superman. |
| Justin: | He doesn't need air. |
| Justin: | He could always fly in space without holding his breath. |
| Neal: | The basic explanation was that Earth-2 Superman could take a breath and completely oxygenate his blood indefinitely, right? |
| Justin: | I don't remember reading that. |
| Justin: | Odd. |
| Steve: | Sorry, thought you meant our Superman |
| Neal: | And then the modern Superman got that for a while, and now just has it...per when he got a bunch of powers right after his death |
| Justin: | Well, we can find that out later. |
| Neal: | It's a continuity loophole they never closed. At any rate, he has a good point...why not take it to space? |
| Justin: | Less innocents that way. |
| Neal: | I think it's the scale of the fight. We expected a lot from that cover and months of anticipation |
| Steve: | A perfect earth doesn't need a Superman |
| Justin: | Great quote. |
| Neal: | THAT was incredible |
| Aaron: | Also depressing, if you think about it |
| Justin: | Yep... |
| Barry: | why - because our earth doesnt have one ? |
| Justin: | It could imply to all super-heroes, but it implies even more to the grestest super-hero. |
| Neal: | It made me think of the other side of the coin...what a Superman in the real world would have to do. Even though the comic world is flawed, everything turns out all right in the end. |
| Aaron: | Superman 2 struggled his entire life to save his universe... and he still lost EVERYTHING |
| Justin: | apply* |
| Justin: | That's gotta mess someone up. |
| Barry: | that could apply equally to luthor of earth 3 and superboy prime too and obviously yes it does mess u up |
| Justin: | Especially being able to see everyone living their lives while you can't. |
| Steve: | So when Brother Eye initiated the vibrational frequencies it returned the multiverse? |
| Aaron: | BIZARRO EARTH! FEAR THE MIGHTY CUBE! |
| Neal: | I think it's more that Luthor is picking and choosing from the multiverse in an attempt to find his "perfect world" |
| Justin: | The metaphysics of the situation still escape me. |
| Neal: | I don't think he wants a multi-verse at all |
| Barry: | including the famed planet HTRAE |
| Neal: | I think he wants a single, perfect world by his definition that he rules |
| Steve: | No I agree with you Neal |
| Justin: | Yet he came from an EVIL world--what does he consider "perfect"? |
| Steve: | I think he's just looking to find which one it might be... or a combination of some melded into one |
| Aaron: | Alex is obviously a few grapes short of a fruitbasket |
| Neal: | And if he has to smash planets into each other (as we see from in front of the Titans Tower), who cares, they're imperfect (to Luthor) |
| Barry: | good question |
| Justin: | I'm surprised he just doesn't go live on the Anti-Matter Earth. |
| Aaron: | That one doesn't amtter at all |
| Aaron: | ...Darn typos ruin puns every time... |
| Aaron: | Alex is half antimatter. He wouldn't fit in there |
| Justin: | He's already half anti-matter anyway. |
| Justin: | Beat me to it. |
| Aaron: | His body chemistry is inherantly unstable |
| Barry: | Where is the story taking us people - it appears obvious at this point the end result will be no multiverse |
| Barry: | or is it |
| Steve: | So Superboy (Conner) teams up with Nightwing... should be interesting to see what they can do together |
| Justin: | I'm wondering how Alex went from self-sacrificing to power-hungry. |
| Neal: | One of the frustrating things about the one year later already happening is that we know certain story elements won't pan out. For instance, in the new JSA, we see that they're back to normal on our Earth. Thus no multiple Earths |
| Justin: | Yeah, that's a letdown. |
| Barry: | i was heading there too neal yes |
| Aaron: | You can't expect someone from a world of villains to be a hero when he's only been alive a few days. |
| Aaron: | Alex never got to live a normal life |
| Justin: | I've said it before, but the JSA is going to be in trouble in a few years. |
| Barry: | why do u say that |
| Justin: | As long as they're tied to WW2. |
| Barry: | the jsa isnt in any trouble tied to ww2 |
| Barry: | there are only 3 heroes from that era still functioning |
| Barry: | and all have mystic ties |
| Neal: | I say it's in trouble now without Geoff Johns. I'm probably dropping the title. That first issue, pretty lame |
| Justin: | Tying characters to specific events will cause trouble later on. |
| Aaron: | Their new catchphrase? "We're old and bold... Mostly old." |
| Justin: | Heck, the first Black Canary will have to have given birth after fifty if things keep going the way they are. |
| Aaron: | Relax. In ten eyars they'll reboot continuity AGAIN. |
| Steve: | OK... Which Flash returned from the Speed Force? |
| Neal: | I say Barry, from the belt. |
| Justin: | They should've done that in the first place. |
| Barry: | Barry Allen I beleive |
| Aaron: | Because SOMEONE HAD TO COOK THE HOT DOGS AND PRETZELS |
| Justin: | As Wolfman has said. |
| Neal: | There's also the fact that it just makes story sense |
| Aaron: | Barry, but I'm praying Wally and family are okay |
| Barry: | prayer isnt necessary - theyre fictional |
| Justin: | Well, we know there's going to be a new Flash. |
| Justin: | Pray to Geoff. :) |
| Steve: | And where did Superboy-Prime get his new suit from? |
| Aaron: | I knew there's a new Flash title, not necessarily a new Flash |
| Justin: | Comic book magic. |
| Aaron: | Action figure |
| Neal: | I'm guessing the Anti-Monitor dispersed into the speed force |
| Justin: | or he's possessed by the Anti-Monitor. |
| Barry: | we know from the Flash that the speed force can be used to create tangible matter |
| Neal: | Otherwise, there's no other way he could make the armor |
| Barry: | the flash's costume used to be made of speed force matter |
| Neal: | Well, okay |
| Aaron: | DC Direct said they wanted to seel another Superman toy, but wanted a special variant |
| Neal: | Conceded there, Barry |
| Neal: | But I doubt a non-speedster could. |
| Barry: | he used the speed force to fashion an evil suit |
| Aaron: | Superboy should be just as fast as any flash, right? |
| Justin: | I wonder if they have a Pantha figure with detachable head. |
| Neal: | I'd say it's the Anti-Monitor in there, Occam's Razor |
| Justin: | Yep. |
| Aaron: | And Risk's arm |
| Aaron: | Can't forget Risk's arm |
| Justin: | Superboy Prime has the pre-Crisis Superboy powers. |
| Neal: | Or someone versed in Anti-Monitor tech |
| Neal: | Like Barry |
| Steve: | OK... Well let's finish this meeting up... Any last minute predictions for issue #6? |
| Justin: | He can even travel through time or dimensions. |
| Neal: | Which feeds the whole Superboy coming back to save things |
| Aaron: | Or to kill them all |
| Neal: | Superboy as a good guy. |
| Aaron: | He wasn't exactly stable |
| Neal: | Batman failing at Brother Eye and assumed dead |
| Justin: | It'd suck if he stayed a villain. |
| Barry: | superman-2 is going to have the opportunity to redeem himself by fighting superboy prime |
| Justin: | Predictions? |
| Justin: | Hm. |
| Barry: | that's my prediction |
| Justin: | I say Prime is possessed by the Anti-Monitor. |
| Neal: | Superman and GA Superman somehow melding |
| Justin: | My prediction. |
| Justin: | Yes. |
| Justin: | Agreed. |
| Neal: | A TON of death |
| Neal: | And Anti-Monitor appearing |
| Justin: | A complete Superman with less of the flaws of each. |
| Justin: | A balanced Superman. |
| Steve: | OK. Well that's the Superman Homepage Kryptonian Council meeting for "Infinite Crisis #5". Thanks for your input guys! |
| Justin: | No problem. It was fun. |
| Neal: | Thanks, all! I hope we meet again in the next month and not month and a half! |
| Neal: | (PLEASE, DC!) |
| Justin: | Nicely done. |
| Barry: | thanks for playing - nite all |
| Justin: | Later. |
| Steve: | bye |
Kryptonian Council Meetings
- June 2005 - Is the Superman Homepage anti-Smallville?
- October 2005 - Infinite Crisis #1
- November 2005 - Infinite Crisis #2
- January 2006 - Infinite Crisis #3
- January 2006 - Infinite Crisis #4
- March 2006 - Infinite Crisis #5
- March 2006 - Infinite Crisis: Secret Files & Origins 2006
- April 2006 - Infinite Crisis #6
- May 2006 - Infinite Crisis #7
- May 2006 - Superman Returns Theatrical Trailer
- May 2007 - Discussing “52”
