2012 Comic Book News Archives

February 23, 2012: MegaCon Report - Teen Titans Panel

Teen Titans Panel By Billy Hogan.

Three eras of Teen Titans stories came together at Orland, Florida's MegaCon on Saturday, February 18th. Original Teen Titans artist Nick Cardy, now 92 years old, was joined by George Pérez, the artist of what is probably the most popular Titans era, and Dan Jurgens, writer and artist of the Titans in the mid to late 1990's.

Dan introduced himself first, and said that George worked with him during Dan's tenure on the book. George introduced himself and said he began working on the Titans around 1980, with writer Marv Wolfman. He then introduced Nick Cardy, who George described as the one who is responsible for he and Dan having the opportunity to draw the Teen Titans.

Nick said that he began working with DC Comics around 1950 and drew around 400 covers, probably enough to cover the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. He watched George and Dan grow into the business, and complimented the level of talent working in the industry today.

As Nick remembered it, the creator of the Titans, who George thought was Bob Haney, had Ramona Fradon draw the earliest six page Titan stories, then he became the artist for the original Teen Titans series.

George recalled reading Cardy's Titans stories when he was in high school, and complimented Nick for drawing some of the most gorgeous girls.

Nick replied that he wasn't a dirty old man. He then reminisced about a few convention stories. During one encounter two large men with long beards approached him. Nick expected them to have deep voices, but when they complimented his work he was surprised how high pitched their voices were. During another convention a "sweet faced young lady," as Nick described her wanted to show him her art. He was glad to oblige, but was surprised to find a sketchbook of pornographic drawings. She had copied his style for faces and hair.

George mentioned that when Nick returned to the comic book convention scene after a career in advertising and doing movie posters, all of the other comic book pros at that first convention were thrilled to meet Nick, one of their inspirations. George added that comic book writer Kurt Busiek attended that same convention with the only intention of meeting Nick personally.

Nick said that whatever career people have, they all like a pat on the head. George said it wears out the hair, pointing to his own bald pate. Nick told George that in his case he'll give him a pat on the shoulder.

Dan opened the floor to questions.

The first question to the panelists was about hard it was to hand off the Titans to other creative teams.

George said that when he and Marv Wolfman began their Titans series, they had created new characters to interact with the established group. While he respects everyone who came after him, George compared it to selling your house. If you go back to visit the new tenants, there will always be something about the new décor that you won't like. With your comic book characters, you hope the next guy treats "your little girl" nice. Eventually, you have to let those characters go. There have been times he's looked at his characters, like Kory for example, and said, "What happened to my little girl?"

Dan followed up George's answer by saying that the longer you work in the comic book business, the more your work will be subject to change. That's how it works. It does have benefits. If George and Marv hadn't built on what Nick and Bob Haney did, we wouldn't have their version of the titans. This is the way the business works. He thought George's analogy was perfect.

Nick said that when you create a character, a lot depends on the writer or the company. When he worked in the business, the writers were always a step above the artists. For example, one writer of a Congo Bill story Nick drew had a rhino charge his favorite food, a zebra. Later in the same story, Bill's sidekick Janu jumped on the jungle's fastest animal, a hyena. Nick tried to explain to the writers the obvious inaccuracies in the story, but the guy wouldn't listen. After the story was published, readers wrote in and criticized Nick for the mistakes in the story. A lot depends on the writer and the power he has. There are also artists who change things to do it his way, and it's too abrupt for the people who follow him.

When he was at another convention, Nick told about a 13 year old fan who asked Nick if he could make the boobs on Wonder Girl bigger. Nick explained that he only drew them one size. Another time a young fan called him in the middle of the night, asking if he could draw Batman, Nick told him he was too young to be up so late, and to go back to bed.

Nick touched on the fan's question by talking about another character he drew, Aquaman. Years after he had stopped drawing the character, other creators had Aquaman lose a hand and killed his wife Mera. He also recalled working in the DC office and 13 year olds Len Wein and Marv Wolfman would go to the office and ask Nick what he was drawing.

The next question came from a fan that had all of the Teen Titans issues from the very beginning through today. He asked the three Titans artists what they thought of the new Titans lineup, since it doesn't seem to "recognize" their work, as the fan put it.

George said that he hasn't read a Titans story in ages. All he knows about current stories is what's on the internet. He doesn't read any comic books anymore. George said that he's been in the business so long, that when he leaves the drawing board, he leaves comic books behind. He has a wife and other interests, so he makes time for them.

Nick said, "You get tired of men in long underwear."

Dan said that with the current Titans lineup, DC is trying to find a new audience, so that the current Titans will become "their" Titans. Growing up, Dan said he read Nick's Teen Titans, and in college George and Marv put their stamp on the Titans for a new generation. Dan looks at it this way, the old Titans stories haven't disappeared; they still exist for readers who prefer the earlier versions of the team.

George compared it to a movie adaption of a book. People may say that the movie spoiled the book, but a bad movie adaption doesn't take away from the book. It's still there.

A female Titans fan asked the panelists which was their favorite Titan.

Nick said that it depends on if you're a boy or a girl. When asked which his favorite to draw, Nick said Wonder Girl.

George replied that he didn't have a favorite. That's why he worked on team books, so he wouldn't have to pick a favorite from among his "children." As he's gotten older, he's gotten more books with female leads. There are worse ways to spend his time at the drawing board.

Dan said that he didn't have a favorite, but he did enjoy drawing Kid Flash the most. He had a great costume.

Nick told about the time that a young fan wanted a drawing of Kid Flash. After Nick finished the sketch, but before the fan returned, he flipped it on the back and drew speed lines and flying leaves. Nick presented that side to the fan, who asked, "Where's Kid Flash?" Nick said that he ran off, before flipping the page over and giving him the drawing.

Another story Nick told was about how he redesigned Wonder Girl's costume. He took her magic lasso and wrapped it around her waist as a belt, and the buckle was a grappling hook. He gave Wonder Girl a beaded necklace, which was all gas pellets and the like, and the eagle on the necklace was a laser, but later artists never used them.

Dan asked Nick what instructions he was given about Wonder Girl's new costume. Nick said that he was only told to give her a new costume, and everything came from him. Dan said the colorist must have hated it. That led to a discussion of old coloring techniques. George said that was why most heroes had blue eyes, because it was easier to print a tiny dot of one color instead of mixing colors and risk registration errors..

The next question was about which type of Titans movie the panelists would prefer, animated or live action.

George talked about the cartoon version of his version of the Titans. Marv Wolfman had been involved with the storytelling. The animated version was too different from his version of the Titans to suit George. At a later convention, a fan of George's Titans brought his daughters to meet George. The girls loved the cartoon and were thrilled to meet the creator of "their" Teen Titans. That was when George understood that the cartoon was for a new generation of Titans fans. The royalties were for him.

Nick said, "That was your pat on the back."

A fan of the wedding of Donna Troy told George how much he liked that story, because he could recognize every character out of their costume. George said that one exercise he did was to draw his characters bald, so that he could make sure they were unique and recognizable. Whenever he draws established characters, he tries to channel the iconic versions of those characters. For instance, when he draws Aquaman, he channels Nick Cardy's Aquaman.

Nick called George the Cecil B. DeMille of comic books, because his books always seem to have a cast of thousands. George said that when he began his career, you got paid the same page rate for drawing Captain America as you did the Avengers. He was the crazy guy who wanted to draw the Avengers.

Dan told a story about when he did a fill in issue for Titans in the early 1980's, when DC split the Teen Titans into two titles, a Baxter series (named for the better quality paper it was printed on) and a newsstand edition. Marv's script was not a full script. One scene he wrote was for a double page spread. All he wrote was to draw a ticker tape parade, listed the characters he wanted in the scene, and then said to include so much detail that George Pérez would be jealous. Dan felt that was a very misguided idea from Marv, because George stands alone in adding details in his panels.

The next question was about the panelists' opinion of the trunks over the tights. The Titan fan who asked that question didn't care for them.

Nick said, "It depends how often you have to go to the bathroom."

George said that it's a tradition, like when men used to wear hats. The same goes with capes. Batman's cape is such an important part of his visual presence, but fighting while wearing a cape would be difficult in real life. Then there's the case of a character lifting an entire building without the structure collapsing. George said that Marv had a name for it, "comic book magic fairy dust."

Dan said that he didn't think he ever created a character who wore trunks outside their costume, but it never bothered him to draw a character that did. He found that the lines of the trunks broke up the planes of the upper and lower body.

George said that the one thing he bemoans about the current state of comic book costume design, the major publishers have a small group of people design the costumes, instead of having all the artists designing the costumes. He compared it to real life, where everyone doesn't go to one clothing manufacturer or wear the same uniform.

Dan added that when he and George were beginning on the New 52, he was surprised when George told him that he couldn't believe he needed reference to draw Superman. Several months later when he began working on Superman, that comment kept echoing in Dan's mind, because he couldn't believe he also needed reference to draw Superman, because of the detail on the armor.

Another Titans fan complimented George on the costume he created for the Betty Kane Flamebird. He asked George if he created her to eventually be Nightwing's partner or just a hanger on. George said that he didn't have any plans for her because he was leaving the book soon. He just wanted to make a homage to her original costume. It was up to future creators what they wanted to do with her.

The next fan asked the panel if they liked to age the Titans or do stories of them in their teen years. George said that you can age them up to a certain point, but you also have to age everyone around them. That's why characters have to be rebooted at times. There's a limit to how far a character can be aged. Young readers don't want to read about their parents flying around fighting crime.

That reminded Nick about the idea of when Aquaman got married. Nick compared it to when movie stars get married. It destroys the illusion for the fans that the star could be theirs.

Dan talked about Green Arrow. Eventually he had grown children, and it was clear that GA was 50 years old. Dan said that Oliver Queen is a prime example of why DC created the new 52. All of that other stuff needed to be cut away. Otherwise there are too many barnacles on the ship.

Another question to the panel was about any collaborators they had problems conveying their visions for a character. George said that a comic book is a compromise between an artist and writer. Sometimes there are things each creator put in that the other one didn't expect. Then he has to pick it up and run with it. It's part of the collaborative process.

Nick shared his experiences working on Bat Lash. Carmine cancelled that title after seven issues. While Westerns were dying out in comics, the Western movie was being reborn in Europe.

A fan touched on the many reboots and how fans can get reconciled with the new characters, like with Superman, for example. Dan said the key is for fans to understand that the current titles begin five years into the superheroes' careers. With Superman, Grant Morrison is doing a kind of "Year One" story, and the gaps will slowly be filled in as the story moves along. What DC has asked him to do is to reaffirm who Superman is. The details may be different, but that doesn't mean that Superman isn't recognizable.

Nick said that it seems like other creators may take what Dan did and emulate his success by taking characters in different directions.

Referring to the "Death of Superman" story, Dan said that other creators did iconic events with other characters, like Batman and Green Lantern. Marvel has done their share of them, even bringing back the black bag death comics, which thrilled him to no end, Dan said.

The fan asked if their work was obsolete. George said that wiping out a character's history may be radical, but that history will still exist. One reason characters are rebooted is to increase sales. Superman sales were not the best, which is one reason for the relaunch. These are corporate characters. It's a business decision, and these are fictional characters. It's a fine line between courting new fans and alienated established readers.

Dan repeated a comment from an earlier panel, about a panel when John Byrne's relaunch of Superman. While there was a lot of resentment about the change, John was very reverential with the character, and eventually a whole new group of people thought of that new Superman as "their" Superman. It worked out, and that's where we're at today. Changes have to be made, but it will work out, Dan said.

Nick said that we're all working on creating a character and letting him go, and looking for new ways to do it.

Billy Hogan



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