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New 52 - Justice League (SPOILERS)
Hypoxic
The thread is now renewed to deal with all upcoming issues of DCnU Justice League.

Note that all posts that were added to the "Justice League #1" thread have been moved here, therefore the posting dates have all changed.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
Hypoxic
Various sites are reporting that it may have already sold out and the second printing is currently underway.


The app hasn't been updated (what the...?) so it isn't even available digitally yet. ComiXology reports that the digital version won't be available until 2:00pm Eastern Time. That's more than 12 hours! I thought day-and-date would be a little quicker than that, i.e. on time with the print editions.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
baalroo

>NeoRanger wrote:


I... honestly have no idea how to respond to that. I'm not sure what it was you were expecting to read. For the time and the space they had for doing this, it was serviceable, at least. It established the setting and started establishing the basic archetypes of the characters (i.e. exactly what you just made fun of). That's what it was supposed to do.

And, no offense, but how are you not exaggerating with things like "worst comic I've ever read". What kind of comics do you get to read, usually? There is really no hyperbole in your words?

I will give you this, though; Johns totally ripped off a joke from a College Humor short. That was cheap as hell.


I was expecting it to be terrible honestly, just not THIS terrible. It established the character archetypes the way Power Rangers establishes the basic archetypes and differences between the Red Ranger and the Black Ranger.

I know it sounds like hyperbole to say "worst comic I've ever read," but I'm not being hyperbolic. It really honestly is the worst comic I've ever read... and I read quite a few comics. Only because you asked; In the last few months I've read (or am reading) Morrison's Animal Man, Waid's Irredeemable, Kirkman's Invincible, Miller's Batgirl, Ellis' The Authority, Waid's Daredevil, Brubaker's Secret Avengers, Bendis' Powers, Aaron's Punisher Max, Cornell's Action Comics... at least those are what come to mind off the top of my head.

I know I'm coming off like an insufferable hater or something, and I really don't know what to say to change that. Um... I'm still excited for Action Comics, Animal Man, Stormwatch, Swamp Thing, All Star Western, and a whole handful of other relaunch titles. Does that help at all?
 
NeoRanger
I... honestly have no idea how to respond to that. I'm not sure what it was you were expecting to read. For the time and the space they had for doing this, it was serviceable, at least. It established the setting and started establishing the basic archetypes of the characters (i.e. exactly what you just made fun of). That's what it was supposed to do.

And, no offense, but how are you not exaggerating with things like "worst comic I've ever read". What kind of comics do you get to read, usually? There is really no hyperbole in your words?

I will give you this, though; Johns totally ripped off a joke from a College Humor short. That was cheap as hell.
 
baalroo
I'll torrent it just so I can discuss it.
 
Hypoxic
Good, good. I honestly appreciate your opinions, baalroo, so I look forward to what you have to say.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
AKalel
Just a suggestion perhaps you could modify and instead of having this thread called Justice League # 1 have a title and sticky thread where people can discuss the current issue of Justice League and unless a person has a question they can keep everything in one thread cause it could also element creating a sperate thread for each issue. A idea is the current Justice Lerague Comic.
 
Hypoxic
Yeah, I was thinking of doing that once the buzz over issue 1 has settled down. I think the relaunch is quite monumental and given that Justice League is the flagship title of the relaunch, I think it warrants giving it its own thread, for the time being at least.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
baalroo

>NeoRanger wrote:


^ You're exaggerating-- to say the least. Exposition is to be expected and at the very least, it sets up the framework for the other books (probably the reason they started off with this). Also, what kind of characterization did you expect? Three-dimensional, well-established characters, in a team book, first issue of 24 pages that juggles the introduction of at least two characters and the overall story and setting?

I would not call it 'good' either, but it was by no means terrible. It was just very standard. Nothing that had a chance in hell of living up to any sort of expectations. But it still does its job.


are you serious? I really don't feel like I'm exaggerating. I even tried to go in with an open mind, but it was seriously horrendous. I'm not kidding when I compared it to the subway ads, I think it's pretty similarly written. It was only a slight step away from...

Green Lantern: My name is green latern, I do stuff with willpower, how about you batman?

Batman: I don't have superpowers, I'm dark and mysterious

Green Lantern: Well don't worry because I think I'm amazing, Let's go find superman

Batman: Let's do it quietly and sneaky because I'm dark and brooding

Green Lantern: No way batman, I'm brash so we're gonna fly in my green jet

BOOM POW

Superman: I'm superman and I'm really powerful!

NEXT ISSUE: SUPERMAN vs. BATMAN!!!! Dun dun DUUUUHHHH


Seriously, I'm guessing that's pretty close to what Johns' first draft looked like. Worst comic I've ever read. I don't even know how to be nice about it, or how to critique it on any sort of intellectual level... it's just really laughably bad.
 
baalroo
Ok, just read it, and I've gotta be honest... it was worse than I expected. Every single line was just completely dripping wet with awkward exposition... this wasn't just written for new readers, it was written for complete morons. The artwork was jumbled and crowded, but as bad as it was I'd say it was the best part of the issue... which isn't saying much at all. The characterizations were extremely one-dimensional. Just an absolutely terrible read on every level. I absolutely will not be reading JLA #2. I'd spend more time explaining all the reasons I hated it, but I already wasted enough time reading it in the first place.

Just really friggin terrible.

I mean, I don't like being so negative, but it was just really horrible. No joke, I'd put it just SLIGHTLY above those Subway ads that have been running in all the DC comics for the last few months. Maybe the level of a really terrible cartoon for young children.

Edited by baalroo on 30/08/2011 23:22

 
NeoRanger
^ You're exaggerating-- to say the least. Exposition is to be expected and at the very least, it sets up the framework for the other books (probably the reason they started off with this). Also, what kind of characterization did you expect? Three-dimensional, well-established characters, in a team book, first issue of 24 pages that juggles the introduction of at least two characters and the overall story and setting?

I would not call it 'good' either, but it was by no means terrible. It was just very standard. Nothing that had a chance in hell of living up to any sort of expectations. But it still does its job.
 
NeoRanger
The app hasn't been updated (what the...?) so it isn't even available digitally yet. ComiXology reports that the digital version won't be available until 2:00pm Eastern Time. That's more than 12 hours! I thought day-and-date would be a little quicker than that, i.e. on time with the print editions.

I know, I've been checking it too, that's why I turned to... other sources. I'll snatch it when Comixology puts it up. Pretty bad handling of their new business model, however. You'd think they'd give the digital distribution a head-start, if only to promote it early on.

It established the character archetypes the way Power Rangers establishes the basic archetypes and differences between the Red Ranger and the Black Ranger.

Yes, there is a reason why Power Rangers (and pretty much everything) does this. It's writing 101. I wasn't exactly impressed with it either, especially considering the hype surrounding it, but it wasn't actually bad. It was just basic. I'll start worrying more when the team's met and they can start fleshing everything out from there on. For now it's just set-up and it needs to be set-up as to not become entirely impenetrable especially for new readers.

I know I'm coming off like an insufferable hater or something, and I really don't know what to say to change that. Um... I'm still excited for Action Comics, Animal Man, Stormwatch, Swamp Thing, All Star Western, and a whole handful of other relaunch titles. Does that help at all?

Hey, it makes no difference to me, I didn't think you were bashing the relaunch or anything. I'm just debating the story itself.
 
Hypoxic

>NeoRanger wrote:


The app hasn't been updated (what the...?) so it isn't even available digitally yet. ComiXology reports that the digital version won't be available until 2:00pm Eastern Time. That's more than 12 hours! I thought day-and-date would be a little quicker than that, i.e. on time with the print editions.

I know, I've been checking it too, that's why I turned to... other sources. I'll snatch it when Comixology puts it up.


You crafty devil. Wink

I'll wait until then to get it.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
baalroo

>NeoRanger wrote:


The app hasn't been updated (what the...?) so it isn't even available digitally yet. ComiXology reports that the digital version won't be available until 2:00pm Eastern Time. That's more than 12 hours! I thought day-and-date would be a little quicker than that, i.e. on time with the print editions.

I know, I've been checking it too, that's why I turned to... other sources. I'll snatch it when Comixology puts it up. Pretty bad handling of their new business model, however. You'd think they'd give the digital distribution a head-start, if only to promote it early on.

It established the character archetypes the way Power Rangers establishes the basic archetypes and differences between the Red Ranger and the Black Ranger.

Yes, there is a reason why Power Rangers (and pretty much everything) does this. It's writing 101. I wasn't exactly impressed with it either, especially considering the hype surrounding it, but it wasn't actually bad. It was just basic. I'll start worrying more when the team's met and they can start fleshing everything out from there on. For now it's just set-up and it needs to be set-up as to not become entirely impenetrable especially for new readers.


Yeah, but the problem is that it's just absolutely slack jawed. Most of the dialogue is lines like "what does your ring do?" and "so what superpowers do you have?"... I mean, Literally. There's a difference between setting up characters and telling good stories in the process, and literally just having a first issue be characters standing around telling each other their power sets like they're discussing Hero Clix figures or something. The level of writing isn't just simplistic, it quite literally feels like it's written for either complete morons or very young children.

maybe I just don't read enough truly "mainstream" comics, but I can't imagine that's the case. Heck, I actually read the entire Grounded run and this makes that series feel like Dickens in comparison. I just don't see how you can seemingly lecture me about story telling and "writing 101" within the process of defending this absolute hot mess of garbage. I'm honestly baffled.

Here I am sounding like a jerk again, sheesh. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, I'm really not "hot" about this at all... it just seems I don't have any polite ways to make the point that I'm making. If I'm coming off as offensive then please say so, it's not my intent.
 
NeoRanger
I'm not trying to lecture you, I'm pointing out there's a reason why this was written the way it was. They have to set everything up, from scratch, without making the story dense and impenetrable for new readers. Banter to show the characters' personalities and exposition is the logical way to go for a story this size. You can argue the entire approach is ill-conceived, which I won't really disagree with, but its execution doesn't really suffer.

Here I am sounding like a jerk again, sheesh. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, I'm really not "hot" about this at all... it just seems I don't have any polite ways to make the point that I'm making. If I'm coming off as offensive then please say so, it's not my intent

Don't worry about it, you're not being rude.

EDIT: In other news, there is a LexCorp sign somewhere in a panel, so we at least know which Lex we get.
 
baalroo

>NeoRanger wrote:


I'm not trying to lecture you, I'm pointing out there's a reason why this was written the way it was. They have to set everything up, from scratch, without making the story dense and impenetrable for new readers. Banter to show the characters' personalities and exposition is the logical way to go for a story this size. You can argue the entire approach is ill-conceived, which I won't argue, but its execution doesn't really suffer.


I've read PLENTY of #1 issues. Many of which I had ZERO knowledge of the characters up front, but that still didn't pander to the absolute lowest possible common denominator in it's storytelling approach. This issue reads to me like bad fan fiction written by a 14 year old.
 
Hypoxic
Saw your review over at comiXology, baalroo. Thought to myself "Hey! I know that scathing reviewer!" Grin
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
eldarthyvaderinsky

>baalroo wrote:


>NeoRanger wrote:


^ You're exaggerating-- to say the least. Exposition is to be expected and at the very least, it sets up the framework for the other books (probably the reason they started off with this). Also, what kind of characterization did you expect? Three-dimensional, well-established characters, in a team book, first issue of 24 pages that juggles the introduction of at least two characters and the overall story and setting?

I would not call it 'good' either, but it was by no means terrible. It was just very standard. Nothing that had a chance in hell of living up to any sort of expectations. But it still does its job.


are you serious? I really don't feel like I'm exaggerating. I even tried to go in with an open mind, but it was seriously horrendous. I'm not kidding when I compared it to the subway ads, I think it's pretty similarly written. It was only a slight step away from...

Green Lantern: My name is green latern, I do stuff with willpower, how about you batman?

Batman: I don't have superpowers, I'm dark and mysterious

Green Lantern: Well don't worry because I think I'm amazing, Let's go find superman

Batman: Let's do it quietly and sneaky because I'm dark and brooding

Green Lantern: No way batman, I'm brash so we're gonna fly in my green jet

BOOM POW

Superman: I'm superman and I'm really powerful!

NEXT ISSUE: SUPERMAN vs. BATMAN!!!! Dun dun DUUUUHHHH


Seriously, I'm guessing that's pretty close to what Johns' first draft looked like. Worst comic I've ever read. I don't even know how to be nice about it, or how to critique it on any sort of intellectual level... it's just really laughably bad.


QFA

Absolutely simplistic and lazy. And it reminded me of a Power Rangers episode, too.

Edited by eldarthyvaderinsky on 31/08/2011 11:02

 
a young tony curtis
Just read it,and although I enjoyed it I am slightly underwhelmed,it's not bad,and the artwork is pretty good,but the writing did come over as though it was aimed at a new and younger crowd,which it is,and is what I expected to be honest.

It had to be quite simplistic to set things up,and it would be something that new and younger readers can follow easily,I think it will keep things like this until everyone is introduced,then it should start to hopefully mature a bit,and if it doesn't,then I will just stop reading it.

We must remember that DC wants new and younger readers,they are a business after all,and if they had written this only for the already comic buying fans (us old farts!),then as NeoRanger says,it would be too dense and impenetrable for a new market and younger readers.

I will be giving it a chance,and Superman is pretty bad ass by the looks of it,looking forward to him versus the Bat in #2.
 
Zaniah
I read it right after I finished Flashpoint #5, and as guy who just returned to comics in May (unrelated to the relaunch, a friend let me borrow Kingdom Come because I always wanted to read it...and I was hooked again) I really enjoyed it. Like most have said the back and forth between GL and Batman was pretty thick - but I still really liked it anyways and I would say it added value to this story. I think it will probably get old, because they will never drop it even years from now but if they did many people would complain that it breaks continuity.

I was almost expecting Johns to reference an "event" that won't be seen for a couple years like he did in GL: Secret Origin. I couldn't figure out if I would have liked that or not, but I'm pretty sure many of the fans on this site would have hated it.


Random Thoughts, Questions:

Was anyone else glad to see that Supes was at least still strong enough to send a GL flying? I'm not sure exactly how strong he is supposed to be now

I really liked they way Lee drew S-Man in this one, do you guys think Rags Morales will be able to draw him as well?

There were 7 characters on the cover, we saw 4. The 3 missing were the three biggest players in Flashpoint.

Darkseid, eh? From what I've read on these forums many of us are probably very excited to see that...



Looking forward to the rest of the #1's I'll be reading, and JL#2 as well.
 
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