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A6K

>Patercoop wrote:


A relationship with Wonder Woman could have intriguing possibilities--one is a princess, the other is a small-town guy, worlds apart socially. I also liked the nuanced exploration of their motivations in Kingdom Come. I even liked the depiction of their child Lara in the Dark Knight Strikes Again (shudder). One compelling reason, established early on in the mythos, for not marrying Lois was that Superman feared she would be constantly threatened by criminals trying to get at him through her. Romancing Wonder Woman would render moot such a fear but of course writers would lose that element of dramatic tension. At any rate, the re-boot is a great opportunity for Clark to date around the DC universe. Done tastefully, we could see many dates end well or end horrifically. Could you imagine a fixated super-heroine popping up in stories looking for that second date? "Not now, Awesome Girl, can't you see I'm fighting Toyman?" Anyhoo, I vote for Wonder Woman.


There is an anime called Project A-ko from the late 80's early 90's. It's about a teenage red headed girl with Super Strength, Speed, and Invulnerability.
At the end of the movie her mom is folding a blue shirt with the S symbol on it. You can see her mom has large gold bracelets on.
Her dad is reading the Daily Planet and is wearing glasses. It doesn't go out and say it but its very suggestive as to who her parents are.

Go to 8:12 in this clip to see it.

http://www.youtub...re=related
 
Patercoop
"Holy mother!"

Ya Clark definitely has a cameo there. Thanks for the link!
 
Vadinhio
Well, for some absolutely inexplicable reason, the current brain trust at DC hates the marriage *so much* that the whole reboot was at least partly inspired by a strong desire to erase it. Plus, the current editorial staff has a lot invested in this relaunch and seems to have gone out of their way to offend and drive off fans of the Clark/Lois marriage. It is therefore pretty clear things won’t be returned to the way they ought to be (i.e., with Clark and Lois happily married on an ongoing basis) in the main comic continuity for many many years. You might see a relationship of sorts within 5 years, but marriage unfortunately won't happen as long as the current powers that be remain involved. However, the same “geniuses” who are in charge of the reboot are the same ones who have quite literally ran the Superman comics into the ground over the past few years so I feel that a good housecleaning remains a strong possibility within the next few years.

Having said that, although the final episode of Smallville was a massive mess of a chaotic letdown, the show at least ended with Clark and Lois unequivocally in a committed relationship and more-or-less-married-sorta-kinda. So if the upcoming release of the Smallville Season 10 DVD set has strong sales (and it will, the SV DVD sets have been enormously profitable for Warner Bros.), I could see a scenario where DC produces a separate elseworlds-ish Smallville continuation book featuring the further adventures of married SV Clark and Lois in the near future to liberate us from our money. I really hope that happens. A Smallville pick-up-where-they-left-off book would be a straightforward way for DC to cash in on both Smallville fans who are screaming for more content and lure those of us (I can't be the only one) who are boycotting the relaunched Superman titles back in a totally face-saving way. I’ve dropped all of my DC titles because of the marriage retcon, but I’d happily buy that book.
 
Hypoxic

>Vadinhio wrote:

It is therefore pretty clear things won’t be returned to the way they ought to be (i.e., with Clark and Lois happily married on an ongoing basis) in the main comic continuity for many many years..


The way it ought to be?

I'm curious, do you consider the nearly 60 years of Superman comics leading up to Superman: The Wedding Album without merit, not the way it "ought to be"?

>Vadinhio wrote:

I’ve dropped all of my DC titles because of the marriage retcon, but I’d happily buy that book.


Why is the marriage the only aspect of the mythos that you enjoy? In line with my question above, do you avoid reading all Superman comic books dated before 1996?
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
Vadinhio

>Hypoxic wrote:


I'm curious, do you consider the nearly 60 years of Superman comics leading up to Superman: The Wedding Album without merit, not the way it "ought to be"?


The short version: Yes. The longer version: I feel pretty strongly that a committed Clois relationship and yes, marriage are absolutely essential to the characters, so yes, I feel that the post reveal books are vastly superior to the ones that preceded them.

Why is the marriage the only aspect of the mythos that you enjoy?


The marriage isn't the only aspect of the mythos I enjoy, but the marriage is what makes the characters compelling and made me want to come back for more. A Superman who isn't married to Lois is just another superhero, and we have enough of those. The marriage adds nuance and depth, and makes Superman really special as opposed to just another brooding superhero. An alien hero who fights to save his human wife and family is far more compelling than a single antihero. A Lois who is Superman's wife and partner, who helps keep the secret and helps him cope, is way more believable and fun than a Lois who despite being a hotshot reporter but too dumb to figure out Clark's secret as part of contrived triangle for two nonsense. A hero who has to balance work and family is far more relatable than a single loner...seriously, who can't relate to having to balance work and family?

Plus, I cannot overstate how much I hate the triangle for two, and that was a big reason why I never cared about Superman before the reveal. But when the triangle for two mercifully went away in it showed that DC was moving Superman from simple comics forward into something deeper and more meaningful and believable. Now they are regressing the storylines and that is NOT a good thing.

DC could have easily sidestepped this whole issue and kept everyone happy by just keeping the marriage in one of the two books, but they didn't do that. They instead appear to have chosen to take fans of the marriage and kick us to the curb. If, at some point, someone from DC editorial had said tactfully, explicitly, and directly that they understood that the marriage was a essential part of the characters, that the marriage would be back eventually, and they were just going to retell the legendary love story for a new generation, it would have calmed much of the very real outrage that is out there. Instead, we got some pretty offensive stuff like"Lois is just a trophy wife" and, well, pretty much everything Didio has said on the subject. I can't speak for anyone else, but if they are going to insult me with their PR, take a fun, cherished, and fundamental part of characters I care about and capriciously remove it just to waste my time as a reader with unwanted triangle for two nonsense to depict Clark and Lois sleeping around, then I'm not wasting my hard earned money on them and rewarding DC's bad behavior. Simple as that.

Finally, they didn't just ruin it for me, but they made it really hard for me to get my kids interested in comics. I looked forward to introducing the whole comic book selecting-buying-reading experience to my kids. The Byrne Superman, with his strong moral focus, family values, and strong happy committed marriage was the one comic book character I was unreservedly eager to introduce to my kids. I can't say the same thing about the New 52 books, which for a number of reasons simply aren't welcome in my home. I will let them read my back issues and TPBs but that's it...no comic store forays for them, and the slow death of comics continues. By making the new version of the character unmarried and angsty, they have ironically made him less accessible for all ages, which is only one of many reasons why completely zapping the marriage was a dumb long term move for DC.

In line with my question above, do you avoid reading all Superman comic books dated before 1996


Well, I actively avoid reading pre-engagement books. I think the Rucka-authored books are overall my favorite. I have no interest in reading the pre-Byrne books and even less interest in reading any new books which feature a not -married-to-Lois-Superman.

Edited by Vadinhio on 14/11/2011 08:22

 
Hypoxic
It seems you're actively missing out on a lot of excellent Superman stories, past and present, and denying yourself the opportunity to broaden your knowledge and experience of Superman.

As for the relationship, Lois and Clark itself is far more integral than Mr. and Mrs. Kent.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
Vadinhio

>Hypoxic wrote:


It seems you're actively missing out on a lot of excellent Superman stories, past and present, and denying yourself the opportunity to broaden your knowledge and experience of Superman.

As for the relationship, Lois and Clark itself is far more integral than Mr. and Mrs. Kent.


For the pre-Crisis books: Maybe. For post-Byrne, pre-engagement books that I never paid much attention to before: probably. Since I know that things end up the way they should I am actually curious to read some of the early Byrne-era books. Since DC has made it pretty clear they don’t want my money for new content, that is definitely something I might be doing over the next few years. Any recommendations?

We’ll have to respectfully disagree here about the present. This is the 21st century, and IMHO things have rather definitively evolved to the point where you just can’t truly tell a really good Clark Kent story without Lois Lane-Kent anymore. 1930s throwback storytelling ought to stay firmly in the distant past. The Lois and Clark characters are vastly more natural and compelling and believable and fun when married to each other, and I simply cannot support this giant turd of a regressive plot development that never should have even been considered, much less implemented. So, until things are set right and Clark and Lois are again married, DC is not getting a penny from me for any new comics content. Still, like that previous poster said, the important milestones in the relationship (romance, reveal, proposal, marriage) will be based on sales; when the novelty wears off and sales inevitably drop over the next few years, DC will undoubtedly belatedly try to lure folks they drove off like me back into the fold.

Edited by Vadinhio on 14/11/2011 23:59

 
Hypoxic

>Vadinhio wrote:


>Hypoxic wrote:


It seems you're actively missing out on a lot of excellent Superman stories, past and present, and denying yourself the opportunity to broaden your knowledge and experience of Superman.

As for the relationship, Lois and Clark itself is far more integral than Mr. and Mrs. Kent.


For the pre-Crisis books: Maybe. For post-Byrne, pre-engagement books that I never paid much attention to before: probably. Since I know that things end up the way they should I am actually curious to read some of the early Byrne-era books. Since DC has made it pretty clear they don’t want my money for new content, that is definitely something I might be doing over the next few years. Any recommendations?

We’ll have to respectfully disagree here about the present. This is the 21st century, and IMHO things have rather definitively evolved to the point where you just can’t truly tell a really good Clark Kent story without Lois Lane-Kent anymore. 1930s throwback storytelling ought to stay firmly in the distant past. The Lois and Clark characters are vastly more natural and compelling and believable and fun when married to each other, and I simply cannot support this giant turd of a regressive plot development that never should have even been considered, much less implemented. No matter where you stand on the marriage, fans of the Clois relationship and marriage are among the most passionate and energetic Superman fans, and willfully enraging folks like me is a poor strategy to help long-term growth. Imagine how much more pleasant and less contentious things would be, and how much stronger sales could have been, if DC had taken a more inclusive approach that resulted in a more-or-less unified fan community heading in. Too bad. So, until things are set right and Clark and Lois are again married, DC is not getting a penny from me for any new comics content. Still, like that previous poster said, the important milestones in the relationship (romance, reveal, proposal, marriage) will be based on sales; when the novelty wears off and sales inevitably drop over the next few years, DC will undoubtedly belatedly try to lure folks they drove off like me back into the fold.


Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree. Though I'm curious how you could create such a solid opinion without actually reading any of the new comics.

My final word on the matter is your insult of other fans:

"No matter where you stand on the marriage, fans of the Clois relationship and marriage are among the most passionate and energetic Superman fans."

That's inappropriate, short sighted, arrogant, and elitist. While your choice to limit your exposure to the Superman mythos is your own and is openly accepted and welcomed for discussion, your allowing that limitation to fester an undertone of imprudence towards other fans isn't what these forums are about. I know many of the posters here, and they are just as passionate and energetic fans as anyone, marriage supporters or not. So, as administrator I won't allow their integrity as fans of Superman to be scoffed at nor brushed aside.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
Vadinhio
My final word on the matter is your insult of other fans:


My apologies, I absolutely didn't mean for that statement to be perceived as an insult to other fans in any way. i sincerely did not mean to imply that one group of fans was better than any other group of fans. The honest intention was to point out that in my opinion, from a corporate standpoint, DC would have greatly benefitted from a different content and PR strategy heading into the relaunch. The original post has been modified accordingly to prevent any further miscommunication.
 
Hypoxic
No worries. We're all on this site for the same reason: to celebrate Superman.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
bobbybob
I respect all opinions but...

Clark and Lois should NOT be married. I prefer the triangle of Clark, Lois & Superman. I always cringe a little inside when I see Superman fly into his apartment after a mission or whatever and there's Lois half naked in bed.

I love the sexual tension between the characters. Will they or won't they? As soon as they do the tension is over and the next thing you know they're talking about kids and the whole game changes at that point. I don't want Superman married, even to Lois, whom he would marry if anybody but he should stay single.

I'm not against marriage. I've been married since 1980 and it's literally the best decision I ever made. Unrequited love is one of the best story telling devices ever thought up. Clark wants Lois, Lois want Superman and Superman knows he can never have Lois. Tragic, dramatic and romantic.

Obviously to make that work Lois should NOT know his secret identity either.

I'm glad they're kind of getting back to basics with Superman and I hope it takes a year or two before Lois finds out.
 
UltraWoman
FWIW,

I personally strongly prefer the stories that have a Lois and Clark romantic element in their stories than those that do not. I've been enjoying the Superman comics but not Action in part for this very reason. While the stories do not have Lois and Clark romantically involved they have as close of a friendship as Clark seems to allow himself with non-superheroes. Perhaps this is due to her father, perhaps not but it's there.

Do I think the triangle of two will be played out again? Yes, but not necessarily with Lois.

Also, for those that are saying that there was never a marriage for Lois and Clark prior to the mid-nineties I quietly point them over to the Earth-2 timeline (which is the golden Age continued forward) which were shown to be married since the 50s, but the marriage itself was not shown until the fortieth anniversary of Action Comics in 1978 with Action #484 where they are married in BOTH a traditional ceremony and a Kryptonian ceremony. Now if you consider Earth-2 to be an elseworld, then that's up to you. If, however you see it as a means of "proof" that it is not impossible for that to be the norm then Lois and Clark have been married in different continuities for a total of 50 years (if I'm not mistaken on my math) out of 70+ years. Now we did not see the married version in every comic and never for more than a vignette here or there so the small doses could very easily be ignored by the average Silver Age fan. Basically what I'm sayiing with this is that while the (married) canon of the primary Superman universe is only around fifteen years, the impression and "meta" of a Superman married to Lois Lane is much much longer. They played and teased it for decades with only an occasional foray into Lana or one of his other love interests in the primary universe, thus keeping it in the forefront of reader's minds. That the idea that Lois and Clark would/should marry is so enduring is largely due to this.

As for myself personally. I has hoped that they (Lois and Clark) would be loosely dating in Superman while Action was somewhat where it is currently. That it's not is a disappointment but not enough for me not to read the Superman comics.

What I hope for is that in a year to two Lois begins either dating Clark or moves towards a relationship with him beyond friendship. From what I can tell there's not enough between her and Superman (at least that we've seen thus far) for them to be in any sort of relationship other than professional.

As for marriage... well... I'm nowhere near as certain we're going to see another one no matter how interested I would be in it. As bobbybob stated above the triangle of two is something of an "unrequited" love story but the fact of the matter is that a storyline like that has a fair amount of room to run before it's run out. And believe me, it WILL run out (towards the end of the Silver Age just before the reboot with "Man of Steel" Lois was with neither Clark nor Superman because of the "issues" with their relationship-not that I could blame her and if I'm not very much mistaken it was also when the numbers for that comic were at an all time low until the modern day.)

Honestly, you could have a tragic/romantic storyline with Lois and Clark/Superman with her knowing (as long as she makes the decision NOT to tell him/prove it.... unlike in the Golden and Silver Age) but it does require them to be unmarried, either to each other or to others.

Edited by UltraWoman on 12/12/2011 08:14

 
A6K
This Superman/Clark Kent seems to be the outsider and lonely guy as described by the writers prior to the new 52 launch.

I'm not even getting the feeling that Lois has a thing for Superman, IDK. I went back and looked at Superman and Action Comics so far and to me it seems she supports Superman but does not have the "crush" she used to. Well, not that I've noticed.

Things could eventually lead to a Lois/Jonathan break up and Clark stepping in to comfort her. I don't see anything happening for some time though, IMO.

What I can foresee is Lois falling for Clark and finds out he's Superman, instead of Lois falling in love with Superman and find out he's Clark.

A marriage? Years away I think.

Superman is defiantly more of a burden that keeps Clark secluded than we have seen before. With no parents Clark needs a relationship more than ever before. But it’s not going to happen anytime soon, at least not with Lois…..IMO.
 
UltraWoman

>A6K wrote:


I'm not even getting the feeling that Lois has a thing for Superman, IDK. I went back and looked at Superman and Action Comics so far and to me it seems she supports Superman but does not have the "crush" she used to. Well, not that I've noticed.

Things could eventually lead to a Lois/Jonathan break up and Clark stepping in to comfort her. I don't see anything happening for some time though, IMO.

What I can foresee is Lois falling for Clark and finds out he's Superman, instead of Lois falling in love with Superman and find out he's Clark.

A marriage? Years away I think.

Superman is defiantly more of a burden that keeps Clark secluded than we have seen before. With no parents Clark needs a relationship more than ever before. But it’s not going to happen anytime soon, at least not with Lois…..IMO.


I have to agree with you about the seeming lack of (romantic) chemistry between Lois and Clark in this most recent incarnation. In the past it was usually showcased between Lois and Superman but as we've barely seen Lois with Superman in either book beyond the passing glance (Action #2 if I'm not mistaken) the chemistry between them has been near nonexistent on the romantic front.

Superman #4 has also got me wondering whether or not the possibility that Lois knows Clark is Superman (it's not stated outright but the implication is there) early on may have had on their romantic dynamic (maybe negative???)
 
A6K

>UltraWoman wrote:


Superman #4 has also got me wondering whether or not the possibility that Lois knows Clark is Superman (it's not stated outright but the implication is there) early on may have had on their romantic dynamic (maybe negative???)


Yeah, when I saw that panel in 4 and the way Lois was covering for Clark it made me say WTF?!?

Could Lois and Clark had a fling in the past or something and already broken up? If you think about it like that and read Superman # 1 the interaction between Lois, Clark and her new Boy Friend makes A LOT more sense.

But I'm purely speculating.
 
UltraWoman

>Sven-El wrote:


So we now now that not only will Lois and Clark not be married in the DCnU, they will also not be a couple in any way shape or form. Most likely she will not know his secret either, (it makes no sense for her to no the secret when there is no relationship.)


So, how long will it be before Lois Lane

a. learns the secret that Clark is Superman.

b.) the two of them are in a relationship of some kind.

Well, barring her removal from the DCnU, I estimate she will be back as his main squeeze by at least 2012-2013 to conicnde with the Man of Steel film. Look at BRuce wayne becoming the only Batman. Just in time for the Dark Knight Rises.

As for anything past a love triangle, I think...2038. The 100th anniversery of the first apperance of Superman. OR at least by that point she'll no the secret again. It would be big. Land mark. Epic. Exactly what DC will want. Then I would venture to guess 2047 they'll be married again. Around 1988 was when Lois learned CLark was Superman and they were married ten years later. Again, just my fan guesses.


It looks like you "A" question may already be in place (although the evidence currently if fairly circumstantial I would say it's fairly strong evidence to support her knowledge at least as of Superman #4-5.)

However B seems to be much further away with Jurgens and Giffen's most recent interview suggesting that (highlight for spoilers) the new Love interest that's being introduced with their run "is going to throw whatever future relationship Clark and Lois had completely off course."
 
Whogaman
All this talk about Lois and Clark's relationship is interesting, but it seems to me that we are not talking about the timing of all this.

Action Comics #1 is set five years in the past, say 2006. In five years, word is, according to Ask Matt, a lot happened in five years, including Superman's death. Now don't you think that some of these events are happening at a rapid pace and those stories should be stretched out and given at least enough time to developed as they did in the "From Crisis to Crisis" era? It also seems that people can't wait for Lois and Clark to get together. But from what happened when Clark visited Lois's apartment and saw she had company, would make that love connection nowhere close to becoming a reality.

The only thing that I can glean from this is that they have a good working relationship, but that's as far as it goes. And as much as I want Lois and Clark to become as close as they once were, that seems now, with the new creative team taking over, to be farther away than ever. But there are those who post here that want the love story now. I think that this shouldn't be rushed just to satisfy these eager readers. Let things take their natural course because if the story telling is as good as it has been so far, this relationship may turn out better than it was before.( if that's at all possable.)

I wonder where the Justice League stories fit into to this timeline. Oh well, here's to all you hopeless romantics out there. I hope we all get what we want in this. Wink

Peace Whoga
[img]https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/v/1543679_624694037566834_909789152_n.jpg?oh=448b277b52c10f94d290f54275a18dc1&oe=52D8C0FD[/img]=====================================
"Like the only real magic -- The magic of knowledge."
 
MorganEdge
I think the relationship, the secret and the marriage may return one by one when the novelty of the reboot has worn off and they need a new gimmick to raise sales.

I personally am not against the marriage per se; but I found it rather boring when they elaborated on the theme too much.... I was rather into the action side of Superman or the funny dorky side of Clark Kent, but marriage? meh...
 
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