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The Perfect Superman Trilogy... What's urs? Who's ur villains?
Humbleme
Name a good superhero movie with three supervillains? There's a reason the second, third and fourth villains in the Batman movies were less and less super than the main baddie.
Name a good quadrilogy? 7-20 movie series, sure, but no one stops at 4. There's a reason these things don't happen. Why not have five movies? Why not have five villains?

My list is like others'

Man of Steel: Zod as the Primary Villain, who causes problems from the very beginning. Faora as the Secondary Villain that develops (remember, she's the female lead, and a villain) during her strain between Zod and Kal-El. General Lane as the weak villain, like Falcone in Begins. Brainiac as the supporting character's villain, like Mr. Earle in Begins.

"Last Son of Krypton" - Lex Luthor as the Primary Villain that develops/is revealed. Metallo as the secondary villain that atttacks from the beginning as Luthor's enforcer. Emil Hamilton as the weak villain, like Sal Maroni in TDK, and a sick Bizarro, or better yet, a Red Kryptonited Superman as the supporting character's villain, like the accountant in TDK.

Man of Tomorrow - Any Alien could be the primary villain here, honestly, Mongul, Darkseid, Despero, you name it. The goal is to bring it full circle to something otherworldly that he has to combat in Earth's behalf. It's not about paying tribute to the villain, but paying tribute to the story. As a secondary villain, one to cause problems the whole time, Doomsday would be great, and having a death-like scene would be quite awesome. As the minor villain, Granny Goodness or Maxima would do well, though she'd be fun as a supporting characters' villain as well. I think Mongul's a wiser choice, but if they do end up doing Darkseid, I only hope they do him justice. He can't get punched out by Superman and still be the one that raises the stakes from Lex Luthor and Zod.
 
Saint Expeditus

>smallville92 wrote:


1 lex / Bizarro

2 lex / zod

3 lex / braniac / doomsday .


I like this concept in that I think Lex and his lust for power and technological achievement should be established as the driving force behind mayhem in Superman's world. I would like to see him be like an angel of light who is not what he appears to be (To everyone but say Superman) and the opener of pandora's box for selfish gain.

I think I would also like to see each film start with an action set piece that isn't necessarily a part of the main narrative. Like most Bond or Indiana Jones movies. That way Superman could dispatch lesser rogues like the bank robbers with hostages, Parasite, Toyman (think big robot killing machines), etc before getting into the main narrative. This would also have the advantage of squeezing more action and villains into the film without muddling the main story (ala Spider-man 3)

If we see Doomsday, I think I prefer that take place in the 2nd film ending with Superman's fate in doubt (live or dead).; make it a dark second act like Empire Strikes Back. It could even end with the Big Bad for the final installment appearing/ascending with Superman out of the way, Zod, or Brainiac.

That's my .02
 
Saint Expeditus

>Humbleme wrote:


Name a good superhero movie with three supervillains?


Return of the Jedi has the Death Star, Vader, and The Emperor. If you take away the Ewoks that movie is good...

The Matrix II had Smith, the Merovingian, and the Architect. (Ok it sucked; but too many villains wasn't the issue)

I think the key to multiple villains is clearly defined roles. One Big bad, and appropriate scary henchmen.
 
Hypoxic

>Saint Expeditus wrote:


>Humbleme wrote:


Name a good superhero movie with three supervillains?


Return of the Jedi has the Death Star, Vader, and The Emperor. If you take away the Ewoks that movie is good...


Hey, man, lay off the Ewoks.

Jub-jub.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
Saint Expeditus

>Hypoxic wrote:


>Saint Expeditus wrote:


>Humbleme wrote:


Name a good superhero movie with three supervillains?


Return of the Jedi has the Death Star, Vader, and The Emperor. If you take away the Ewoks that movie is good...


Hey, man, lay off the Ewoks.

Jub-jub.


LOL... Han shot first!
 
Humbleme

>Saint Expeditus wrote:


>Humbleme wrote:


Name a good superhero movie with three supervillains?


Return of the Jedi has the Death Star, Vader, and The Emperor. If you take away the Ewoks that movie is good...

The Matrix II had Smith, the Merovingian, and the Architect. (Ok it sucked; but too many villains wasn't the issue)

I think the key to multiple villains is clearly defined roles. One Big bad, and appropriate scary henchmen.


I'm so sorry, man, the Death Star isn't a supervillain, and neither is the Architect. One is a weapon, and one is a minor villain. The Architect had less than five minutes of screen time across 4 hours of movies. If that's what you propose for a third villain, but I don't think that's what people are thinking when they say "Darkseid, Mongol, Luthor." You need clearly defined roles, true, but you also need to realize that you can't develop three villains and make a good story. Not only does one of the villains have to be a henchman, the other villains have to be almost a non-issue, with no service or development paid to them at all.
 
Saint Expeditus

>Humbleme wrote:


>Saint Expeditus wrote:


>Humbleme wrote:


Name a good superhero movie with three supervillains?


Return of the Jedi has the Death Star, Vader, and The Emperor. If you take away the Ewoks that movie is good...

The Matrix II had Smith, the Merovingian, and the Architect. (Ok it sucked; but too many villains wasn't the issue)

I think the key to multiple villains is clearly defined roles. One Big bad, and appropriate scary henchmen.


I'm so sorry, man, the Death Star isn't a supervillain, and neither is the Architect. One is a weapon, and one is a minor villain. The Architect had less than five minutes of screen time across 4 hours of movies. If that's what you propose for a third villain, but I don't think that's what people are thinking when they say "Darkseid, Mongol, Luthor." You need clearly defined roles, true, but you also need to realize that you can't develop three villains and make a good story. Not only does one of the villains have to be a henchman, the other villains have to be almost a non-issue, with no service or development paid to them at all.


The death star is a uber-powerful obstacle / problem to be overcome, it has a back story, it will kill the good guys, and it gets introduced as such. It doesn't chew up screen time with dialog but it is more of a villain than say, the smoke monster.

Replace Architect with agents if you don't like that one. The point is that a movie doesn't have to suck just because it has multiple villains.

I also agree that some multi villain combinations wont work. Some will.
 
Hypoxic

>Saint Expeditus wrote:


>Hypoxic wrote:


>Saint Expeditus wrote:


>Humbleme wrote:


Name a good superhero movie with three supervillains?


Return of the Jedi has the Death Star, Vader, and The Emperor. If you take away the Ewoks that movie is good...


Hey, man, lay off the Ewoks.

Jub-jub.


LOL... Han shot first!


[img]http://www.horrorshirts.com/images/HANSHOTFIRST/hsf2.jpg[/img] is not a valid Image.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
Humbleme

>Saint Expeditus wrote:


>Humbleme wrote:


>Saint Expeditus wrote:


>Humbleme wrote:


Name a good superhero movie with three supervillains?


Return of the Jedi has the Death Star, Vader, and The Emperor. If you take away the Ewoks that movie is good...

The Matrix II had Smith, the Merovingian, and the Architect. (Ok it sucked; but too many villains wasn't the issue)

I think the key to multiple villains is clearly defined roles. One Big bad, and appropriate scary henchmen.


I'm so sorry, man, the Death Star isn't a supervillain, and neither is the Architect. One is a weapon, and one is a minor villain. The Architect had less than five minutes of screen time across 4 hours of movies. If that's what you propose for a third villain, but I don't think that's what people are thinking when they say "Darkseid, Mongol, Luthor." You need clearly defined roles, true, but you also need to realize that you can't develop three villains and make a good story. Not only does one of the villains have to be a henchman, the other villains have to be almost a non-issue, with no service or development paid to them at all.


The death star is a uber-powerful obstacle / problem to be overcome, it has a back story, it will kill the good guys, and it gets introduced as such. It doesn't chew up screen time with dialog but it is more of a villain than say, the smoke monster.

Replace Architect with agents if you don't like that one. The point is that a movie doesn't have to suck just because it has multiple villains.

I also agree that some multi villain combinations wont work. Some will.


That depends on what you call a villain. If a foot soldier, with no dialogue, no motivation other than orders, that needs no screen time other than their action sequence is a villain, then a movie can have literally a hundred villains, and for an action movie, probably'should.

But if you're talking about supervillains, the kind that have extraordinary powers as well as deep emotional motivations, a two hour movie can only have two. Any other villains have to flow naturally out of the world, such as the Agents, or the Death Star, or the Foot, or the Architect - who was scoffed at because he didn't flow naturally. Same with Venom in SM3. After the first two, you've got to let it go. And why would you need more? Only one villain will be the one in the climax anyway.

That's my understanding. And the Smoke Monster was one of the greatest Supervillains I've ever seen, imho. He had motivation. The Death Star does not.
"Pride goeth before a fall..."
 
Element36
Name a good quadrilogy? 7-20 movie series, sure, but no one stops at 4. There's a reason these things don't happen. Why not have five movies? Why not have five villains?


I completely agree. 5 movies at a minimum. I think Harry Potter set a new standard for a type of epic saga. Do a 5 or 7 part epic. That way each major villain can get their day and you don't have Superman dying/giving up powers/etc in the second movie.

Superman has done best in a serialized format. Whether that's tv, comics or even radio. The process of discovery while facing many foes is much more epic.

Treat the most known superhero in the world like he deserves. Don't give him a trilogy like Batman or Indiana Jones (original). And don't do aimless disconnected 20 some films like Bond. Do an epic, continuous, Harry Potter-esk saga!!

It won't happen with Man of Steel, but should when they re-boot it after that. Maybe have the final film come out June 2038? Pfft

What do you think?

Edited by Element36 on 18/07/2011 08:53


Element36
 
Hypoxic
Harry Potter isn't a good example. The films are based on a novel series that was planned on being stopped at some point by Rowling. It happened to be a heptalogy (of course the final story was cracked in two for the films; gotta squeeze as much cash out as you can), and now the books have stopped, so have the films.

Superman can't go for multiple films. It will get bad, fast. The original film series, and so many other multi-part film franchises are enough evidence of that.

I would rather have one excellent film than a series of progressively lackluster efforts.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
Element36
Completely disagree. The reason Harry Potter is a good example, is it's an example of a film series that has it's arc already planned out. Film series that just go at their sequels ad hoc end up making crap. If the story is planned out, there can be development. Sequels add instead of detract from the quality.
Element36
 
Humbleme
^But that's not how Hollywood works. The people who have gone out on a limb and prepared sequels ahead of time have routinely failed. That's why when you ask these big superhero filmmakers what they have planned for a sequel, they always say they have no plans, because they don't believe its wise. They've seen people make cliffhangers and never get the funding for a sequel too often.

When going from a novel series, you know where it ends. You know where it stops. You know where you're going, and furthermore, you know that the next movie you haven't made yet has a successful story, and so do the people doing your funding.

Comic book movies do not have this security, nor will they ever, imho.
"Pride goeth before a fall..."
 
TheDave545
Hmmmm this is a tough one.

Man Of Steel - Zod/Faora/Non, have Zod turn up on Earth for some reason, Kill Last son of Jor-El, Make New Krypton on Earth some nefarious scheme, but on Clarks first day at the Daily Planet Perry informs him its a bad time to be a new starter as a computer virus has been causing problems so they have to do it the old fashioned way, have this throughout the film in the background, peoples phones, computers and TV reception messing up, defeat Zod and his cronies, end film.

Post Credits - Shadowy large object hidden behind the moon, camera changes to a figure in shadow with wires inserted into it, then the figure speaks with emotionless voice, "Kryptonian prescence on Earth........Unexpected variable........no matter, plan will proceed." Sunlight creeps slowly across face to reveal Brainiac.

Man Of Steel 2 - Lex/Brainiac/(Minor) General Lane - Movie starts with Superman doing what he does, have a bald character watching him out of a window with his hands behind his back and a bald head, revealed to be Lex, have General Lane meet with Lex about the computer virus that is still sweeping the planet and the constant annoyance of Superman, who they both have a mutual hatred of because hes an Alien on our planet, have Lex say hes working with someone anonymous to tackle the virus and he believes its Superman doing it as planned invasion, the military using Luthor tech that was given to him buy Anon take down Superman and lock him up blaming him for the virus and interogating him about an invasion, as this is happening all the planets defences go offline, then Brainiac invades in his ship, Luthor realises hes been duped by Brainiac this whole time just to get the military looking at Superman and Superman out of the way, Lane begrudgingly lets Superman free, he has an epic battle with Brainiac, eventually defeats him, has words with Luthor, end film.

Post Credits - Brainiac downloads into a new body on some planet, a voice in the background speaks to Brainiac "You dissapoint me Brainiac, i thought of all planets Earth would be the easiest to enslave, but it seems even your calculations can be wrong at times", "My calculations are perfect, there was an impossible variable.......A Kryptonian on the planet, enhanced by their yellow suns radiation", "A kryptonian.......Impossible, the kryptonians were wiped out, only remnants of their civilization remain.", "As i said.......an impossible variable", "I will not be denied Earth, it wil be mine, if a kryptonian is there, then it will be a kryptonian creation that kills it.......Granny Goodness.......Initiate Doomsday Protocol"

Man Of Steel 3 - Lex/Doomsday - Open the film with an asteroid hitting the planet, As the world still recovers from the Brainiac invasion, the public is divided by Superman, some love him for saving them, but others show mistrust for him because he like Brainiac was not of this Earth, Lex is now running for Presiden and gaining huge support from the Superman Haters with his speeches about creating a division in the government that deals with Aliens, and a defence proposition incase it happens again, Superman still trying to regain public trust and deal with his day to day life as Clark, back to asteroid impact site, and as the local police, and fire department put out fires and evacuate the area, we hear loud bangs, then have a huge beast break free from a metalic cage like interior buried under the impact crater, start smashing its way through the police/FD and make its way to the small town on the outskirts of metropolis, Lex gets word of it and sends his new squad, they go and get decimated in seconds, Clark walking through the planet notices everyone watching the news, seeing this huge creature destroying everything in its path then super jump towards Metroplis, changes into Superman, meets Doomsday head on and epic battle rages through Metropolis, Superman using last amount of energy kills Doomsday, but dies in the process, Superman has epic funeral with other Justice leaguers appearing (at this point there films have been released too, and had some connection between each other.)

Post Credits - Granny Goodness approaches the back of a huge throne, "The kryptonian....the one they Call Superman....is Dead as is the beast."......."No matter Granny, the beast succeeded, Earth is now mine, Set Apokolips on course to Earth...it is time." Camera pans round to see Darkseid sat in the throne smiling.

If you guys liked that, my fourth film would have been the Justice League film, with hints or Return of Superman comic, i could detail.

Thats my perfect Supes trilogy anyways, leading into a JL movie.
 
sonicsneakers
MOS - Zodd (Idk why they went with him...)

MOS 2 - Doomsday & Darkseid / SUPERGIRL

MOS 3 - Brainiac / Supergirl & Superboy

Alright most people are wondering WHY THE [censored] Doomsday and Darkseid together in one movie?!!?!?! OK OK LET ME EXPLAIN.

The movie should begin with something slamming into the earth. Clark finds it to be Kara/Supergirl, and he takes her in not unlike Superman/Batman Apokolips. In the first section of the movie, Doomsday comes and fights Superman to death, where they both die not unlike in Superman: Doomsday. Instead of Lois' arms, Kara can feel the loss of her cousin and feel it be her responsibility to live up to his name (perhaps she feels his death is her fault) which leads her to become Supergirl. This is when Darkseid comes in (about 30 mins in maybe). He sends his warriors, which give Supergirl quite the workout, but eventually he begins taking over and Supergirl isn't able to hold him off. Superman's return (about 1:30) into the movie with the black suit from the comics and he helps Kara fight off the invasion from Darkseid. After a long and struggleful fight, Kara and Clark are able to fight off and expel Darkseid and stop his invasion.

MOS 3 - I don't have a plot deeply thought out for this one, but it could be along the lines of Brainiac comes around, studies Clark (and perhaps Kara) while genetically cloning Clark (the clone eventually becoming Superboy). The first hour or so of the film could be Superboy's difficulty deciding whether clark or brainiac was good or evil, and eventually he goes to the good side, and helps the other Superheroes fight off Brainiac's metallic forces (possibly also including Metallo???)

Though i REALLY wish Zodd was not used for the first movie. It removes so many possibilities.
 
copacetic
I'd say, Man of Steel with Zod as the villain is fine. Second movie should have Brainiac, no question about it, along with Lex Luthor. The third movie should involve Lex again, with Metallo, Bizarro and Parasite.

Edited by copacetic on 24/06/2012 00:01

 
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