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SUPERMAN v BATMAN 2012-13 who will make the most $$$ ?
a young tony curtis
Smile O.K. neck on the line! I believe that Superman will match or dare i say even exceed Batmans total worldwide box office takings and dvd blu ray sales (the total profits of everything).As long as Superman is a definite December holidays release, and Batman summer release. It will take a while to obviously gather all the figures and numbers etc,but i think Superman can be that good.

The modern take for a new generation will gather hype and excitement as 2012 progresses,this is the first modern Superman movie we have had,Returns did well for a Donner,Reeve,Superman 1 and 2 tribute/follow up and i loved it,but imo this is going to blow everyone away! yes its early,no story, no suit, no full cast, no idea of fx or visual style lol. but i think we will have blow your mind action trailers that will make every kid (from 8 to 80) go "wow! got to see the new Superman".

Henry Cavill will also get ladies bums on seats too,being rather a handsome so and so (i was never confused).I may have eaten 2 blue M+M's and drank 6 strong coffee's Shock but i think Superman will win out,does anyone agree?

Edited by a young tony curtis on 14/10/2011 16:34

 
Doug22
I hate to say it but IMO Batman will blow Superman out of the water at the box office. Even if the quality of both films is similar.

Remember back in the day, How SR was going to do 400 million in the US alone. That was the common expectation of many fanboys. But it ended up not quite makinh 400 million worldwide. Even film critics were predicting a huge, though less, ambitious 300 million US take.

BTW, IMO it's not realistic to compare the two. Batman is the flagship DC franchise in popularity and money-making bona fides.

I expect both GL and Thor will pull in as much and possibly more than does Superman: The Man of Steel. In any case, that IMO is the more valid comparision/competition for the Superman franchise. Not Bats or Spidey or Ironman.

Superman isn't even in the same league. He's really a second tier character now.

Plus going up against the Hobbit is going to hurt the Superman's BO numbers a lot IMO.

Will it do better than SR? I'm pretty sure it will but I'd be surprised to see it take in more than 300 million domestic. Will WB be happy with that - sort of I guess as the film is supposed to cost less than SR's 220 million.


I still don't see a huge profit from the next film which is why I'm befuddled that WB is even doing it. If you've read the court transcripts from the rights case WB execs admitted their doubts about the viability/money making potential of the franchise.

We'll see.

Edited by Doug22 on 04/04/2011 14:43

 
a young tony curtis
Superman is in the same league as Batman,he just hasnt had the chance to show it untill now,if Nolan had took over Superman instead of Singer,then we might be sitting waiting for the third awesome Superman film right now,and Batman might be being slated for not being any good or second tier, the roles would probably be reversed.

Its true that a lot of fans have SR blues,but this is a totally seperate movie,a new modern take,there will be so many new fans for this film,and towards the end of 2012 do you think people will be thinking of SR? no,they will have had an awesome Batman movie,and will be gagging for Superman after seeing amazing trailers,previews photos etc.

Maybe give Superman and the new movie a chance? and I think people will want to see both Supes and The Hobbit. Smile

Edited by a young tony curtis on 11/11/2011 14:00

 
Kal-El85
Batman will probably have a bigger BO but it does have the advantage of being a sequel to a massive hit. Reboots are tough b/c the general audience may be a bit hesitant to see them b/c of the lackluster or flat out poor quality of the last film... ie Batman Begins following Batman & Robin, and The Incredible Hulk following 2003's HULK.

If the quality of the next Superman movie is there, I'd expect Superman numbers somewhere between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, but who knows really. If this Superman movie is as epic as I'm sure we're all hoping it could break some records that TDKR sets that same year.
 
Doug22
Kal-El85 wrote:
Batman will probably have a bigger BO but it does have the advantage of being a sequel to a massive hit. Reboots are tough b/c the general audience may be a bit hesitant to see them b/c of the lackluster or flat out poor quality of the last film... ie Batman Begins following Batman & Robin, and The Incredible Hulk following 2003's HULK.

If the quality of the next Superman movie is there, I'd expect Superman numbers somewhere between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, but who knows really. If this Superman movie is as epic as I'm sure we're all hoping it could break some records that TDKR sets that same year.


Batman Begins made about what SR did as I recall. If that is all Superman: man of Steel does it will be seen as a big disappointment.

I expect the Superman film can beat BB's numbers but not by a whole lot. No way wiill it do TDK numbers IMO.

I have my fingers crossed that it does 250 million and maybe a bit more. But I'll be holding my breath opening weekend cause, I would not be totally shocked to see it underperform as SR did.

The interest isn't there in Superman. I hate that but that is the reality.

Look at GL - it could do as well as Ironman. The buzz is over the top and if you go to SSH and other movie boards there is huge anticipation for GL.

I remember back in 2006 prior to SR's release. There was mostly criticism and skepticim of SR at SHH and other sites. No real excitement. It's like night and day when you see the reception GL is getting now compared to that of SR.

That disinterest or antipathy to Superman has not gone away. it may bestronger because of what happened with SR. Snyder is going to have to overcome a lot to get Superman to turn decent numbers - let alone great numbers. Which is why I'm really surprised that WB is trying one more time with Supes.

Edited by Doug22 on 04/04/2011 20:35

 
copacetic
Kal-El85 wrote:
Batman will probably have a bigger BO


From running around Gotham in full body kevlar, I'd imagine the batsuit would get a little gamey, sure.
 
Hypoxic
I wonder if it could be considered incogitable how much it doesn't matter.
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Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
Doug22
Hypoxic wrote:
I wonder if it could be considered incogitable how much it doesn't matter.


Yes and no.

I've tried to research the rights issue a bit. You're right that the estate could have sued WB if a film was not started prior to 2011. The issue being the estate, and the court agreed, has been denied income because WB had been failing to use the character in any real way (movies, games and such) for a decade or more so the estates' potential income was being denied.

In other words if WB had done a film in 2002, 2005, 2008 and now the family would have earned a good chunk of royalties. But the family got squat - SR returning a paltry profit. WB's failure to exploit the character led to the families victory in court.

But WB won in a way too. WB argued the Superman franchise was barely viable. The court took their arguments and ended up valuing the franchise not at Batmans level or Spiderman or Ironman or even the Hulk but at less - it was equated to Conan!

So the feeling was in 2009 that WB would let the franchise end and do nothing before 2013 when it loses Superman to the families. Cause the money WB could lose if the estate sued was minimal - given Superman projected worth was no more than the Conan franchise.

The surprise is that WB decided to go ahead anyway with a last film. I suspect out of spite. Their is no love lost between the two camps and it really makes no clear sense why they are doing one more. Still sort of a mystery to me. ut I'm working on figuring that out.

In any case, sequels are basically out of the question as the families will likely block WB/DC from doing Superman after 2013 and try to shop the portion of the franchise they own to a studio who can make them big bucks in a short time.

Why, cause in ten years it's a moot point. No one owns Superman then. The character goes public and becomes worthless basically. Anyone and their brother at that point can do/make whatever they want re: Superman.

So given no sequels it in a way really doesn't matter if the next film underperforms.

But yet, as a Supes fan, I want to film to do relatively well. For Supes final outing to be seen as something good, postive and successful.

Like I said, yes and no.
 
baalroo
I would argue that the reasons SR was poorly received had more to do with the crappy director attached to it, a sappy effeminate looking Supes, boring trailers, and a bad screenplay... rather than the fact that no one wants to see a Superman movie.
 
Kal-El85
Doug22 wrote:
Kal-El85 wrote:
Batman will probably have a bigger BO but it does have the advantage of being a sequel to a massive hit. Reboots are tough b/c the general audience may be a bit hesitant to see them b/c of the lackluster or flat out poor quality of the last film... ie Batman Begins following Batman & Robin, and The Incredible Hulk following 2003's HULK.

If the quality of the next Superman movie is there, I'd expect Superman numbers somewhere between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, but who knows really. If this Superman movie is as epic as I'm sure we're all hoping it could break some records that TDKR sets that same year.


Batman Begins made about what SR did as I recall. If that is all Superman: man of Steel does it will be seen as a big disappointment.

I expect the Superman film can beat BB's numbers but not by a whole lot. No way wiill it do TDK numbers IMO.

I have my fingers crossed that it does 250 million and maybe a bit more. But I'll be holding my breath opening weekend cause, I would not be totally shocked to see it underperform as SR did.

The interest isn't there in Superman. I hate that but that is the reality.

Look at GL - it could do as well as Ironman. The buzz is over the top and if you go to SSH and other movie boards there is huge anticipation for GL.

I remember back in 2006 prior to SR's release. There was mostly criticism and skepticim of SR at SHH and other sites. No real excitement. It's like night and day when you see the reception GL is getting now compared to that of SR.

That disinterest or antipathy to Superman has not gone away. it may bestronger because of what happened with SR. Snyder is going to have to overcome a lot to get Superman to turn decent numbers - let alone great numbers. Which is why I'm really surprised that WB is trying one more time with Supes.


I should've been clearer. When I said somewhere between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, I literally meant somewhere in the middle ground between those two film's BO numbers. So considerably higher than BB but Dark Knight #s may be asking a bit much. I think the reason for so much apathy for SR was b/c the movie was so dull and took very few chances to re-invent the character. From what we've heard so far I don't think Snyder's Superman will suffer from the same mediocrity. It's no guarantee but it looks like this will be the first Superman of our generation that genuinely attempts to re-invent the character for modern sensibilities. Superman is too big to fail, so WB was obviously going to try agian.

As far as Green Lantern goes, I have to admit it's starting to look a little better to me too. I was very critical of the first trailer. Thought it was too "comedic" and borderline campy. However, the new footage looks promising. I still don't think Reynolds was the right choice for Hal Jordan and I seriously thought they should have went with a story that incorporated Jon Stewart similarly to how James Rhodes (aka...the future War Machine) played a key part in Iron Man. That would have been a cool way to set the stage for him to take over as the Green Lantern in a later sequel. but hey what are you gonna do... I'm cautiously optimistic about Green Lantern yet I remain more excited about Thor and Captain America.

Edited by Kal-El85 on 04/04/2011 23:49

 
Doug22
Kal-El85 wrote:
Doug22 wrote:
Kal-El85 wrote:
Batman will probably have a bigger BO but it does have the advantage of being a sequel to a massive hit. Reboots are tough b/c the general audience may be a bit hesitant to see them b/c of the lackluster or flat out poor quality of the last film... ie Batman Begins following Batman & Robin, and The Incredible Hulk following 2003's HULK.

If the quality of the next Superman movie is there, I'd expect Superman numbers somewhere between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, but who knows really. If this Superman movie is as epic as I'm sure we're all hoping it could break some records that TDKR sets that same year.


Batman Begins made about what SR did as I recall. If that is all Superman: man of Steel does it will be seen as a big disappointment.

I expect the Superman film can beat BB's numbers but not by a whole lot. No way wiill it do TDK numbers IMO.

I have my fingers crossed that it does 250 million and maybe a bit more. But I'll be holding my breath opening weekend cause, I would not be totally shocked to see it underperform as SR did.

The interest isn't there in Superman. I hate that but that is the reality.

I should've been clearer. When I said somewhere between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, I literally meant somewhere in the middle ground between those two film's BO numbers. So considerably higher than BB but Dark Knight #s may be asking a bit much. I think the reason for so much apathy for SR was b/c the movie was so dull and took very few chances to re-invent the character. From what we've heard so far I don't think Snyder's Superman will suffer from the same mediocrity. It's no guarantee but it looks like this will be the first Superman of our generation that genuinely attempts to re-invent the character for modern sensibilities. Superman is too big to fail, so WB was obviously going to try agian.



That makes sense. I agree somewhere in the midddle of these two BO takes.

I'm expecting 250 million and hoping for maybe 275 million.

Could it disappoint like SR? I don't think that is totally out of the question. As a Supes fan I have a list of reasons why SR didn't perform. The fear is if Goyer/Snyder/Cavill come at this totally differently than SR, as they are doing, and it still disappoints then the Superman naysayers will clamor that it the character that is the problem. Not the script or production team.

I am impresssed with Cavill's presence. I can't think of too many actors who have the presence he does. It's as strong as Reeve'ss and maybe stronger. It's that intensity that IMO has to be captured in the film's Superman. That's why I think the film will do OK, not great, but decent numbers.

Remember it's budget is 175 million. If it makes 250 domestic that will be a vindication. SR's budget was 220 million and it made like 204 domestic.
 
a young tony curtis
I really think that SR will not be in people's minds once the ball is rolling next year,with a new Superman with no Routh,Singer or anything to make anyone attach the new movie with SR or the Donner films,then the new trailers come out and people will be psyched. The budget of 175 mill isnt a problem as you get more bang for your buck now than when Returns was made,and we are still at the start of all this madness! lol, we have 20 months to go until the release to kind of acclimatize fully to the new movie.
 
Doug22
a young tony curtis wrote:
I really think that SR will not be in people's minds once the ball is rolling next year,with a new Superman with no Routh,Singer or anything to make anyone attach the new movie with SR or the Donner films,then the new trailers come out and people will be psyched. The budget of 175 mill isnt a problem as you get more bang for your buck now than when Returns was made,and we are still at the start of all this madness! lol, we have 20 months to go until the release to kind of acclimatize fully to the new movie.


The bigger issue is will Superman be in people's minds next year.

I'm not sure that even great trailers and a very charismatic Superman in Henry cavill will be enough. There is huge apathy towards the character and it's going to be hard to overcome that.

I think WB is taking a huge risk here which they really didn't have to.
 
Hypoxic
The biggest name draw to the film is Nolan and the cracker of a writing team. Snyder is the weak one out here, and still the main reason I have some doubts about the film's follow through.

Plenty of people are going to go see the movie initially, but if it sucks, like Snyder is prone to make a film do, then it won't do well.

If it's good, it's good, and people will go see it. I have no idea where this wide spread apathy is. I travel frequently and spend vast amounts of time in other countries, and it's easy to see that Superman is still among the most globally recognizable characters, comics or otherwise.

Superman Returns only fell short of expectations because it was a weak movie, and not because it was Superman. Just the same, 390+ million is pretty damn good. Conversely, The Dark Knight didn't do so well simply because it was Batman. It was the sequel to a very successful film and was simply outstanding. It was a good movie, and so people went to see it.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
baalroo
Hypoxic wrote:
The biggest name draw to the film is Nolan and the cracker of a writing team. Snyder is the weak one out here, and still the main reason I have some doubts about the film's follow through.

Plenty of people are going to go see the movie initially, but if it sucks, like Snyder is prone to make a film do, then it won't do well.

If it's good, it's good, and people will go see it. I have no idea where this wide spread apathy is. I travel frequently and spend vast amounts of time in other countries, and it's easy to see that Superman is still among the most globally recognizable characters, comics or otherwise.

Superman Returns only fell short of expectations because it was a weak movie, and not because it was Superman. Just the same, 390+ million is pretty damn good. Conversely, The Dark Knight didn't do so well simply because it was Batman. It was the sequel to a very successful film and was simply outstanding. It was a good movie, and so people went to see it.


Honestly I see more "Civilians" (aka non-nerds) wearing Superman memorabilia or sporting Superman stickers on their cars etc etc around here than I do Batman... by FAR. In fact, I see more Superman crap than almost any other IP I can think of aside from maybe Hendrix or the Beatles. So I agree that the audience isn't apathetic to the character.

Also, on a personal level, I'm worried a lot more about the writing than I am the directing. I don't trust Nolan and Goyer to write something I want to watch, but I'm certain Snyder can make whatever they write fun to look at.
 
a young tony curtis
Oh well,we lost a lot of good posts from the message boards,and there were a few good points made on this thread over the last days,Hypoxic's post about Supermans relevance and popularity was fantastic,and he ended it by saying that it was SR that was'nt good for Superman,not that it was Superman the characters fault or popularity that was being called into question. (hope people got to read it before it was lost,as i found it quite inspiring)sorry to sound like i'm kissing ass,or going over the top,but seeing other fans that really care about this character and who defend him is really cool. Grin
 
seutonius
Obviously, Batman 3 will make more money. Batman has a better record of box office success, and The Dark Knight is the second highest grossing film in box office history. That's a MAJOR accomplishment. Furthermore, the 3rd installment will end the trilogy, and that alone will contribute to it making more money. I'm a die hard Superman fan, but the last good Superman film was Superman II, and that was released 30 years ago. Since the new film is a reboot, it will have to rely on good word of mouth, since most people hated Superman Returns, and will naturally be skeptical of another Superman film. Batman is the king of box office superheroes today, and Superman has a long way to go towards re-establishing credibility.
 
Supereyes
I have to say it will be Batman unfortunately. Batman's been the number 1, Superman has been yesterday's hero. It's common knowledge, even I was aware of this when I was in the 1st grade. At that time, my favorite superhero was Batman and I thought he was the coolest, but I still had a interest in Superman, so I decided to watch Superman III, only one they had at the library, and then I loved it. It was really the junkyard fight scene that really made me love Superman.

The difference between Batman and Superman is, is that Superman's the nice guy, and someone everybody loves, whereas Batman isolates himself from the world, and is cool, but some people in Gotham hate him, but some respect him.

Then I saw Superman: The Movie of course, and I was a huge fan of him by then. I think if some people watch the Superrman movies for the first time, they'll consider Superman a relevant hero.

Of the two animated series that were on in the mid 90's, Batman was more popular than the Superman animated series.

But when Justice League came on, I was so amazed, because in that show, Superman was probably the coolest, he was a relevant hero among them all. He was the leader. He kicked ass. He was no where considered to be the lamest of the league. He was cool. I think this show even made fans of Batman to like Superman more. I want to see Superman back again on screen, and where he is liked again by every audience.
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Chaquan
Batman will likely have a bigger building, but it does have advantages of being a massive hit sequel. Is difficult to restart the B / C of the general audience may be a bit hesitant to see them out of the last film of poor quality B / C, sluggish or ...
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LovelyLanaLang

>Chaquan wrote:


Batman will likely have a bigger building, but it does have advantages of being a massive hit sequel. Is difficult to restart the B / C of the general audience may be a bit hesitant to see them out of the last film of poor quality B / C, sluggish or ...


Alot of movie franchise failed when they do a trilogy. It depends how good the third movie is. I doubt it will big as the sequel because many people want to be same level as the sequel which it is impossible.

Only a few franchise make a successful trilogy. Plus, it got competition with the Spiderman reboot which it open in the summer too.

Anyway, if the trailer is super good there is no doubt in my mind that Superman will get the most $$$ because after all Superman is still popular than Batman in terms on rest of the world. The trailer have to be very bad-ass to spellbind all the audiences.
 
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