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Update Lois...
MorganEdge
I say, we almost never talk about changing Lois... must she really be the same nosy journalist tough as nails and sharp as a tack?

Why not dumb her down just a wee bit. Make her a little sillier. The romantic angle is overblown I think. And the film doesn't need Kent, Luthor and Olsen providing the comic relief. Make her a loveable loser or a bit full of herself. Hey, it would help explain the "why doesn't she ever notice Supes is really Clark?" question.
 
Kal-El85
I've said this before and I'll say it again. If Lois get "updated" it needs to be the angle about her not knowing who Clark really is. The whole idea of her not knowing the truth for years while almost simultaneously falling for both Clark and Superman is one of the most dated and antiquated parts of the mythology. It just doesn't work as well today.

She should know the truth before he becomes Superman (or at least before he reveals himself to the world). A great way to re-invent her character is to allow her to play a role in helping him define his dual identity and then in protecting it. Just like Bruce Wayne has his modern confidants (Alfred, Rachel Dawes, and Lucious Fox), Superman needs Lois to serve a similar role in the new movie..

The show Smallville has certainly made a number of mistakes, sacrificing quality in the interest of keeping the show running, but something I believe few can argue, 1. They got Lex right (early on at least) and 2. They got Lois right. The decision to bring her into the mix earlier on so that she could develop a relationship with Clark before he actually becomes Superman ended up making a lot more sense. It's a new twist on a classic story and should prevent most of us from rolling our eyes at another Superman/Clark and Lois love triangle that has quite frankly been done to death. At the end of the day, I want a smarter Lois not a dumber one..

Edited by Kal-El85 on 12/02/2011 10:38

 
NeoRanger
Nah, Lois doesn't need an update and especially not this update. You can play that angle with Lana, maybe, but not Lois. The validity of her infatuation with Superman alone comes from that. Plus, she still is a great feminist icon that's rarely put to proper use in... any medium. If anything, they need to ramp it up a bit.
 
Utah13
NeoRanger wrote:
Nah, Lois doesn't need an update and especially not this update. You can play that angle with Lana, maybe, but not Lois. The validity of her infatuation with Superman alone comes from that. Plus, she still is a great feminist icon that's rarely put to proper use in... any medium. If anything, they need to ramp it up a bit.


I agree, I always liked how she plays the tough feminist, but she does the same thing that all the silly girls do, and thats fall for Superman. Or the side angle that if she would just relax, she would notice Clark.
 
MorganEdge
Well, she could stay the same but also have her role be downplayed to make more space for the action.

I always wondered how come most Superman films and shows put so much emphasis on his relationship with Lois or even Lana. No other superhero does that. Last time I looked he appeared in Action Comics.
 
NeoRanger
It's one of the longest-lasting romances in pop culture and a romance story is generally supposed to attract a female audience as well.

I personally enjoy it.
 
JR1989
Lois is great the way she is.
"You will give the people of earth an Ideal to strive towards, they'll race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall but in time they will join you in the sun, in time you will help them accomplish wonders"
 
Hypoxic
If you change Lois to a bimbo and take away the romance you're literally changing an element of the mythos that has helped to maintain its endurance.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
MorganEdge
Hypoxic wrote:
If you change Lois to a bimbo and take away the romance you're literally changing an element of the mythos that has helped to maintain its endurance.


You're right, since Lois was there from the very start. But I don't see how she must be "that" important relative to other aspects of the myth. I see keeping Superman's essence (the suit, the origins, the dual personality) much more important than keeping Lois'.
Since the romance has to be there, so be it, but must it really be so central? Does it really make a difference in attracting the female audience to the tv and movies?
 
NeoRanger
Of course it does. Blockbusters can't just rely on adrenaline-filled dudes to go see them for all the explosions. But that aside, the romance is one of the core elements of the mythos. It's one of those things you just know about Superman: comes from Krypton, has super-powers, dresses like Clark Kent, loves Lolo.

On another note, you can't maintain the dual personality without Lois Lane. She's vital to that.
 
sandman1347
I don't think you can change Lois drammatically. Perhaps you could make her a little more sexy and a little less of a ball-buster but you certainly can't dumb her down.

The main thing that they should do is not focus on her so much. I wan't to see a movie about Superman; not Lois Lane. Lois was practically the main character in SR and that cannot happen again.
 
Whogaman
I have often wondered in some versions of Superman mythology how could Lois not know that Clark was Superman.

Just look at how Lois has been portrayed in the Silver Age and on the Adventures of Superman. If Lois is an ace reporter on "a great metropolitan newspaper", how can she not notice Clark's many disappearances when Superman shows up. And why Superman is seen with all the Daily Planet staff except Clark.

And in the AOS episode "The Man Who Could Read Minds", after a bomb attempt on the car that Clark and Lois were riding in, Clark is seen by Lois without his glasses.

And in "Panic in the Sky, Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, and Lois see Clark again without his glasses, and they they did not recognize him. So Lois is portrayed as being dumb as dirt if she didn't recognize Clark as Superman. And some actually want this version of Lois Lane? I think not.

If Lois is supposed to be a great reporter, then how could she not pick up on the clues as to who Superman is.i

I think as Kal-El85 said that Lois being fooled and lied to by Clark is an idea who's time has passed. Is you show Lois as she was in the Silver Age comics and TAOS today, do you think that the "damsel in distress" and the 'oblivious Lois' would be the Pulitzer Prize winning reporter we have come to know today? I think that they should show Lois as she is today, a smart and savvy reporter that has Clark/Superman's complete trust.

Please don't go back to the old ways. Please give us the 21st century Lois Lane.

Peace Whoga
[img]https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/v/1543679_624694037566834_909789152_n.jpg?oh=448b277b52c10f94d290f54275a18dc1&oe=52D8C0FD[/img]=====================================
"Like the only real magic -- The magic of knowledge."
 
FlashGordon
I always wondered how come most Superman films and shows put so much emphasis on his relationship with Lois or even Lana. No other superhero does that. Last time I looked he appeared in Action Comics.


I'm guessing you haven't seen the Spiderman films? Or, Iron Man? The Rocketeer? Daredevil? Batman '89? Romance is a huge part of this genre, it's essential to the drama. Not all of us want to watch The Expendables in spandex.

You can't 'dumb' Lois Lane down. She's a feminist icon, and needs to remain strong. Lord knows, we don't have enough intelligent female characters in pop culture. Wonder Woman can only hold up the temple for so long, and let's not knock out her helpers. She is, arguably, as essential to the mythos as the Clark Kent persona. It's always been about her.

Action Comics #1, the first appearance of Superman, what was he doing? Trying to save Lois Lane. Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Lana Lang...those are all ancillary characters that can be replaced or discarded. Lois Lane cannot be. She's the Maiden Marian to Clark's Robin Hood. Robin Hood doesn't work without Marian.

Since the romance has to be there, so be it, but must it really be so central? Does it really make a difference in attracting the female audience to the tv and movies?


Yes, it raises the stakes. Superman is about saving the world, keeping us safe. All that is irrelevant for us, the audience, unless we know who he is. Well, who is he? He's Clark Kent, a reporter in a big city. He grew up on a farm, he likes football and apple pie, his favorite novel is To Kill a Mockingbird. Oh, and he's in love with a woman. One woman, since 1938. She must be something special to keep SUPERMAN's attention all these years.

Edited by FlashGordon on 14/02/2011 05:20

 
Hypoxic
I'm quite surprised of the level of distaste for the romance. It's vital to the pathos of the character, and always has been. It's not a damn Danielle Steel novel, but an element, like I said before, that has helped and continues to help maintain the longevity of the character and the mythos itself.

Changing that dynamic would be worse than changing the suit.
Easy, miss. I've got you.
_____

Get away from me, padre. You reek of the irrational. - Lex Luthor
 
MorganEdge
You can't 'dumb' Lois Lane down. She's a feminist icon, and needs to remain strong. Lord knows, we don't have enough intelligent female characters in pop culture. Wonder Woman can only hold up the temple for so long, and let's not knock out her helpers. She is, arguably, as essential to the mythos as the Clark Kent persona. It's always been about her.


That would have been more valid when the comics started in 1938 and a career woman was an oddity and even during the 70's Donner-Lester films, but nowadays women in film (this includes the superhero genre) that are empowered feminist symbols are not as rare, so Lois is not as unique as one may think these days. But I am not as adamant on dumbing her down as much as not make her as important as Superman or even the villain.
 
FlashGordon

That would have been more valid when the comics started in 1938 and a career woman was an oddity and even during the 70's Donner-Lester films, but nowadays women in film (this includes the superhero genre) that are empowered feminist symbols are not as rare, so Lois is not as unique as one may think these days. But I am not as adamant on dumbing her down as much as not make her as important as Superman or even the villain.


I firmly disagree. It's not like women are featured that greatly in comicdom, if they are it's akin to Powergirl which is just all looks. To say that a "career woman" is irrelevant today is highly insulting. It's still an uphill battle for a lot of women, and objectification is still at an all time high.

Also, she is VERY unique. What superhero film has shown a strong assertive female character? The only superhero film I can think of is Iron Man, Pepper Potts is a hell of a character in that flick.
 
NeoRanger
^ I don't think he meant "irrelevant", per se, just not as important a feminist icon as she used to be in '38. Also, Potts isn't the best subject in this argument as she was reworked for the films; in the original comics, she unbearably weak and drooling all over Tony.

Having said that, I disagree with MorganEdge as well. While strong female characters are more common in drama and entertainment nowadays, they're not necessarily done right. There is a certain misconception about what a strong female character is and Lois Lane herself hasn't escaped this misconception. It's often-times that she's either a bi*** to everyone, especially Clark or she's just hyperactive, with the same overdone 'girly' attitude underneath her rough exterior, like she was in "Lois & Clark".

We need a Lois Lane that's just good and moral and kind, but dynamic and not overcompensating for anything.

Also, I'm reaching a bit now I admit, but I would even like to see her having a more prominent part in the movie than I think she will. The current female sensation for ages 12 to 20-somethings is Twilight. Twilight features a submissive and yet manipulative woman jerked around by an abusive a-hole that she just instantly loves. I would like to see a proper romance with good characters in an escapist setting such as this to counter Twilight's dangerous perceptions of what relationships should be like.
 
JR1989
FlashGordon wrote:

That would have been more valid when the comics started in 1938 and a career woman was an oddity and even during the 70's Donner-Lester films, but nowadays women in film (this includes the superhero genre) that are empowered feminist symbols are not as rare, so Lois is not as unique as one may think these days. But I am not as adamant on dumbing her down as much as not make her as important as Superman or even the villain.


I firmly disagree. It's not like women are featured that greatly in comicdom, if they are it's akin to Powergirl which is just all looks. To say that a "career woman" is irrelevant today is highly insulting. It's still an uphill battle for a lot of women, and objectification is still at an all time high.

Also, she is VERY unique. What superhero film has shown a strong assertive female character? The only superhero film I can think of is Iron Man, Pepper Potts is a hell of a character in that flick.


I agree with you.

Lois lane is unique.
A movie without the personality of Lois lane would flop,margot kidder had personality as Lois but Kate bosworth didn't seem to have the Lois personality and looked bored all the way through superman returns.

Like superman, Lois lane is great the way she is.
"You will give the people of earth an Ideal to strive towards, they'll race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall but in time they will join you in the sun, in time you will help them accomplish wonders"
 
sandman1347
NeoRanger wrote:
^ I don't think he meant "irrelevant", per se, just not as important a feminist icon as she used to be in '38. Also, Potts isn't the best subject in this argument as she was reworked for the films; in the original comics, she unbearably weak and drooling all over Tony.

Having said that, I disagree with MorganEdge as well. While strong female characters are more common in drama and entertainment nowadays, they're not necessarily done right. There is a certain misconception about what a strong female character is and Lois Lane herself hasn't escaped this misconception. It's often-times that she's either a bi*** to everyone, especially Clark or she's just hyperactive, with the same overdone 'girly' attitude underneath her rough exterior, like she was in "Lois & Clark".

We need a Lois Lane that's just good and moral and kind, but dynamic and not overcompensating for anything.

Also, I'm reaching a bit now I admit, but I would even like to see her having a more prominent part in the movie than I think she will. The current female sensation for ages 12 to 20-somethings is Twilight. Twilight features a submissive and yet manipulative woman jerked around by an abusive a-hole that she just instantly loves. I would like to see a proper romance with good characters in an escapist setting such as this to counter Twilight's dangerous perceptions of what relationships should be like.


Wow!

I agree with the first part of your post. Lois Lane must be a strong, driven woman who is not simply overcompensating for something. Lois & Clark and especially Smallville have made Lois into a busy-body who often acts carelessly and needs Superman to save her. SR made her a real #*%@ and most versions tend to make her extremely unreasonable.

I don't like that. Just because she has a bulldog personality that doesn't make her a femenist icon. That portrayal of women as irrational and unaccountable for their actions needs to stop. She has to be a reasonable person who at least tries to avoid getting into situations where Superman will have to bail her out.

As for the second part of your post; please no. I don't want this movie to go after Twighlight's audience. I don't want this film to be made in order to pry money from the pockets of 13 year old girls. They have Smallville already, must we give them the movie too?

Lois doesn't need to be featured more than she was in the past. In fact; Superman Returns featured Lois way too much if you asked me. If you watch that movie again; you'll see that she was basically the main character. The whole movie was about her dealing with her relationships and her son and work obligations. Superman was just along for the ride. Almost everything he did was in response to her. He went after the plane because she was on it. He even went and spied on her in her own home! Then we got to see her inexplicably bring her son onto that ship (what a ridiculous act that was) and get kidnapped. Of course Superman went out to sea to get her there too. It was just excessive. Superman shouldn't only take action when Lois is involved. He is not just some overpowered bodyguard.

Lois Lane is a great character but Superman is the character I want the movie to really be about. Strangely enough, it seems we might actually get this as Snyder says that the movie will focus on Superman prior to his arrival in Metropolis. This means that this film and its sequels will introduce Lois properly and not just assume that everyone knows who she is and that we know that she and Superman belong together. They will have to actually create this romance in a meaningfull and believable way.
 
MorganEdge
Flash Gordon wrote
I firmly disagree. It's not like women are featured that greatly in comicdom, if they are it's akin to Powergirl which is just all looks.


Comics are a different issue, but I'll agree that feminist symbols are simply not there, for example Wonder Woman? c'mon! she shows even more skin than Power Girl!

This might be because perhaps women don't buy as many superhero comic books as men, so no need to please a minority.


Also, she is VERY unique. What superhero film has shown a strong assertive female character? The only superhero film I can think of is Iron Man, Pepper Potts is a hell of a character in that flick.


All characters vary from this rule to a degree, but in the last dozen years the only important female character that I think eludes the feminist empowerment trope in superhero films is Spiderman's Mary Jane.

NeoRanger wrote
I don't think he meant "irrelevant", per se, just not as important a feminist icon as she used to be in '38.


Correct

Having said that, I disagree with MorganEdge as well. While strong female characters are more common in drama and entertainment nowadays, they're not necessarily done right. There is a certain misconception about what a strong female character is and Lois Lane herself hasn't escaped this misconception. It's often-times that she's either a bi*** to everyone, especially Clark or she's just hyperactive, with the same overdone 'girly' attitude underneath her rough exterior, like she was in "Lois & Clark".

We need a Lois Lane that's just good and moral and kind, but dynamic and not overcompensating for anything.


I think that would be trying to make Lois the flawless perfect character of the bunch.

And the misconception about the strong female character may be on purpose. Why change something that doesn't seem to hinder ticket sales? Not even critics seem to mind it unless they are purposefully looking for that angle.

sandman1347
As for the second part of your post; please no. I don't want this movie to go after Twighlight's audience. I don't want this film to be made in order to pry money from the pockets of 13 year old girls. They have Smallville already, must we give them the movie too?


Sadly, a Smallville episode gets a 2 million audience. Superman's two top comics titles sell about 75000 a month. Which market do you think they would prefer?

Lois doesn't need to be featured more than she was in the past. In fact; Superman Returns featured Lois way too much if you asked me.
......
Lois Lane is a great character but Superman is the character I want the movie to really be about.


Exactly!

Strangely enough, it seems we might actually get this as Snyder says that the movie will focus on Superman prior to his arrival in Metropolis.


I knew I had heard this somewhere! Although it may be that they're already catering to the Smallville kids. Does it mean we get no Daily Planet and the consequent characters?

You know? If the film is set before arriving to Metropolis, the love interest might be Lana Lang or even Lori Lemaris...

Edited by MorganEdge on 16/02/2011 13:39

 
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