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"I'm a Mac. I'm a Brat" Smallville episode reviews.
xbladed
I only just joined this Homepage, and have only skimed the first page from 2009 and Friadays episode of bitching. but seems to me you got your head up your ass, alot of your points like Lionel was to stupid to realize the place was full of clone's and prob one of the others dna. Thats where u stick your head back up your ass and miss were his current hitman/bodyguard(oh thats right your head was outta your ass at some point calculating he doesn't have one) tell him its another clone's dna... I guess just in the 10 mins i spent skimming through your messages, if became clear you don't deserve to watch smallville...Peace
 
The Man of Steel1265
xbladed wrote:
I only just joined this Homepage, and have only skimed the first page from 2009 and Friadays episode of bitching. but seems to me you got your head up your ass, alot of your points like Lionel was to stupid to realize the place was full of clone's and prob one of the others dna. Thats where u stick your head back up your ass and miss were his current hitman/bodyguard(oh thats right your head was outta your ass at some point calculating he doesn't have one) tell him its another clone's dna... I guess just in the 10 mins i spent skimming through your messages, if became clear you don't deserve to watch smallville...Peace



I understand that you're new to the website, but you shouldn't bash others just because you don't agree with them.
 
Lex Vader
Yes, I wrote that while watching it, so that was before his magical butcher henchman scientist of exposition popped up and told him that it was, in fact, from one of the other clones. The point was, it was obvious to the audience that it wasn't Conner, so having Lionel look like he was even considering Tess' bad lie when the truth was so painfully obvious made him look like an idiot. That was poorly done, and so was his henchman. As for him not having a bodyguard, I was talking about 96% of his scenes.

But I get it. You're one of those people who accepts whatever the show does and never questions it because the show never tells you that you should question it. If there are any plotholes, you don't care because either you didn't think of them, or the show explained them with some illogical afterthought. And you don't care if it's illogical, because the show didn't tell you it's illogical. You can enjoy stupid television if you want, but you cannot sit there and tell me it isn't stupid.

But you're right. I don't deserve to watch Smallville. I deserve to watch something with better writing than a bathroom wall.
 
krypto-mac
I'm planning on posting a review tonight. Sorry about the delay folks, i've been busy. Life got in the way, you know how it is. Smile
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
xbladed
Now to reply to lex

Lionel pretending to believe Tess, so he can cunduct his own research makes him an idiot??
He didn't have his "magical butcher henchman scientist of exposition", Odd how that happens anytime Lex or Lionel get captured, killed, whatever. Funny how all the Security Lex Has had and how easy it has alway been to dispose of them anytime the writers need a kidnapping.. I get it!!! It's been happening since season 1.. Get over it....

I question the show all the Time, I'm not without a brain. I live an hour away from Tdot. I don't except without question. I have watched this series to many time's to be without question. But I appreciate it.

Logical? There is nothing logical about Smallville or Superman for that matter. It isnt logical that a Intergalactic traveller will reach earth in 5 years, it's not logical if he did the sun would give him superpowers, not a Krypto freak's abilitys have logic. This isn't a show about spock..ALthough that would be a cool show.. This is a show about D.C. comics and nothing is logical in any of it...

Have u ever though maybe the writers had a little better idea than u? Maybe just a little? Maybe they want to take the show where no Superman show has gone before, and they defenatly have. It has been alot of fun and If the only reason u still watch it is to give us a rewiew then. I guess thats your job and we all have critics. But if u watch it cause you still like it then maybe a little respect for it in the last few episodes..

But it's been fun back and forth with u and I hope to continue till the show is Dead...
 
krypto-mac
Smallville
Season 10, Episode 16
"Scion"


I must say, this episode was starting to get back more towards what this show should be. It wasn't perfect, there were flaws - which Lex amply pointed out (and i will get to responding to you in due course, Lex), but for the most part, it was a large improvement over what we've been given recently.

For me, this episode played out a lot like the start of season 3, when Clark was influenced by red kryptonite - which i loved at the time. It was obviously the implication they were trying to make, except this time Conner was in the role Clark had previously been in, and Clark played the more fatherly disciplinary role that Jonathon played last time. I enjoyed the throw-back to the old season, but i think they need to be careful. There's a fine line between paying homage to an old episode and blatantly ripping yourself off because you've run out of ideas.

Now onto the episode.....

It would seem that if it wasn't official before, Tess and Conner are now officially living at Clark's house, which is mighty generous of him. I should point out that Clark needs to be more careful about his disguise though. Luckily it was just Tess in his house, who is already in the know about his secret, but he just doesn't seem to care about covering up his identity at all anymore.

I'm not sure how i feel about the Tess and Conner subplot unfolding off-screen, it's a fairly major thing - but luckily they had Clark learn about his powers on-screen, so i won't take too much issue with this.

Going quickly through the episode on it's key points:

- I love seeing how Lionel learned about the lab where the clones were created. I'm also happy to see Tess is trying to protect Alexander/Conner....although it's a bit of a change from trying to jab him with cyanide a couple of episodes ago.

- The interaction between Clark and Conner is great, especially Conner learning that Clark is the Blur, and Clark trying to train him to use his abilities. I loved seeing Conner's heat vision activating when he saw Lois, and Clark being quick enough to recognize what was going on to turn him in a different direction.

- Lois and Clark's chat about Conner actually surprised me. I thought Lois was a little bit cynical of Conner, especially given what she knows about Clark, and about half his DNA being used to make Conner. But i did enjoy Clark telling Lois what it's like to be different, and feeling as though you don't fit in, and how he wants to take Conner under his wing because of this. The fact that this brought Lois around was a little bit light-switch, but was necessary.

- Tess shouldn't expect Clark to "take care" of Lionel in the way that she expects it, and she shouldn't expect Lois to talk him into it. I loved the analogy to Al Capone though, but again, Tess was completely light-switch in her attitude change. She went from wanting him dead to simply wanting to prove he was a fraud in all of about 20 seconds.

- Lionel being hell-bent on getting "his son" back made for an interesting plot point. I got chills at the end when he was standing in front of Lex's grave saying he'd do anything for his return, only to have Darkseid materialize in front of him. I'm hoping Darkseid revives Lex but doesn't inhabit his body or anything. I think for the final season, we really need something big for the finale. I would hate it if they copped out and had Darkseid inhabit Lex or Lionel's body.

- How was Lionel tracking someone who can move at super-speed?

- This Lionel is a lot more brutal than the Lionel we used to know was ever portrayed as being. The fact that he would flat out execute Lois is proof of this.

- I think seeing Conner protecting Lois because of his infatuation with her, even stealing for her, wasn't anything we didn't see Clark do back in season 3. In fact, the things Clark did were much, much worse. I just hope that there are some consequences for it, much like there were for Clark. I would hate to think this sort of thing is just going to go by unnoticed/unpunished.
I think seeing him launch a defenseless woman across the room was going a tad too far though, i just don't agree with it as an acceptable action no matter what influence you're under.

- The throw-down between Conner and Clark was great. Some people might say that they didn't enjoy watching Clark get his butt whooped, but really, that's a very superficial view to take on it. He clearly just didn't want to cause any harm to Conner, and it was shown that once he did exert a bit of force, he easily overpowered him. I thought the balance was perfect.
Lionel's use of kryptonite on Clark at that exact moment was a touch predictable, but i liked Conner choosing Clark over Lionel, and exploding the kryptonite. This was, in fact, reminiscent of how Kara saved Clark when she first got control of her heat vision - another good throw-back.

- Tess' approach to Lionel at the end was brilliant. Nano-trackers, mirror finger prints, having him thrown out of his kingdom, threatening to crush him if he chose to retalliate - but FINALLY drawing the line at killing showed character growth and some serious gumption, albeit chillingly cold and calculating. She's really showing those Luthor genes, but i think Clark needs somebody like that on his side to protect him sometimes.

- Clark's talk about over-coming darkness and choosing who you want to be, and even going as far as enrolling Conner in high school was great stuff. This was a very fatherly role for Clark to take, and reminded me of Smallville of old - with Clark playing the role of Jonathon obviously, and Conner playing the role of the son who still needs to learn about himself and his powers.
Lois and Clark talking about their own children and what sort of Dad Clark would be, and Clark talking about his new-found respect for his parents....all great throw-backs to old seasons.

So there's the episode. It wasn't perfect, but it was a lot better than what we've been offered recently. I actually really enjoyed the episode, and i'm really hoping we see some more of Conner, and that he plays some sort of role in the finale.
The foreshadowing with Darkseid at the end was fantastic, i think i can already see the direction it's heading in, but i will watch and wait with bated breath.
All in all, this episode was really solid. I'll give it a 4 out of 5. It walked the fine line between paying homage and ripping itself off extremely well, and managed to stay on the right side of that line in my opinion. Bring on next week!

Edited by krypto-mac on 08/03/2011 05:44


To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
xbladed
Kryto-mac
That was a great review, I truly enjoyed it. You were spot on and showed a love of Superman..

As far as how lionel tracked Conner, lets just assume the Lionel of the other realm that had Clark his whole life, probably know's better than anyone how to track, control, and clearly kill Clark in manys way..

Thank for the Great Review..
 
krypto-mac
xbladed wrote:
Kryto-mac
That was a great review, I truly enjoyed it. You were spot on and showed a love of Superman..

As far as how lionel tracked Conner, lets just assume the Lionel of the other realm that had Clark his whole life, probably know's better than anyone how to track, control, and clearly kill Clark in manys way..

Thank for the Great Review..


It's like i told you mate, if something is worthy of praise i give it praise. Likewise, if something should be called out, i call it out.

I don't necessarily agree with your take on how Lionel could track beings who move at super-speed though. Let's be honest here, how can you possibly track someone that can move faster than the eye can see? Once Conner put the ring on, which had the tracking device in it, well then that's fair enough - but prior to that? It didn't make an awful lot of sense.
Still, that's only 1 small glitch in an otherwise good episode.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
krypto-mac
Lex Vader wrote:
I can't even believe how this show starts. Like a terrible sitcom. Do we really need another insulting intro where Clark speeds back to the farm in his jacket after "a night of patrolling"? This is how babies write.


I really think you're going to have to learn to accept this. Yes, it would be nice to actually see him stopping crime, but they've got a lot of other things going on at the moment that they need to show us. I wouldn't take too much away from them for not physically showing his patrolling at this stage.

Lex Vader wrote:
And he walks into his unlocked house to be surprised by an unexpected visitor. Now, I'm not saying it's abnormal to be casual in your own house and not expect a stranger to be in there. But when you have a world-threatening secret and you don't lock your door, you deserve a dumbass lifetime achievement award. Come on, Smallville. It's been literally two seconds and you're already in shreds on the floor. You make it so easy.


I thought about that also, but then it occurred to me....pretty much everyone on the show who would possibly be at his house, already knows he's the Blur. Lois, Chloe, Ollie, Tess, Emil, Lionel....they all know.

Lex Vader wrote:
Oh genius, she told Clark about Lex offscreen. That's good writing. Didn't mention it last week or see fit to, you know, have anyone looking after him wherever he was living. Just go out and get drunk and leave the superpowered infant alone.


Well apparently he wasn't alone, he was being tested by a ton of Doctor's. I presume he was staying in some sort of facility while they were running tests.

Lex Vader wrote:
This whole scene is stupid. I can't believe they're talking casually about a genetically engineered clone over coffee.


And what would you have them do?

Lex Vader wrote:
Lionel is evil and too stupid to realize a clone lab full of broken clone tanks probably had more than one clone in it and that Tess' fake evidence came from that. Boring.


He did suspect that, which is why he had the sample tested.

Lex Vader wrote:
What's with the wild mood swing mid-scene? He starts out saying how awesome it is to be in a barn instead of meeting doctors. Then he's just like, this barn is SO two minutes ago. I need to decide to need to know where I come from and run off instead of staying in this barn.


You may have a fair point there, but i think it evolved naturally through the conversation.

Lex Vader wrote:
It's kinda hard to have a character who has Disney princess syndrome and wants to go out into the big, wide world and see what life has to offer when for all intents and purposes, he's been alive for two weeks. That's retarded.


He has powers, he wants to use them to save people and do incredible things....what's the problem exactly?

Lex Vader wrote:
I mean, she has no questions until a pan falls off the wall. Yeah. A little slow on the uptake, Lois. I mean WHAT the HELL.


It took her 6 years to figure out Clark was leading a double life, i don't think you can fault her because she didn't realize what was going on with Conner inside 5 minutes.

Lex Vader wrote:
Helen Bryce! Thanks for reminding me of a character that would be more interesting to watch than this utterly ridiculous storyline.


I was actually happy with the throw-back to earlier continuity.

Lex Vader wrote:
Tess tells Lois she's the only hope, because she can convince Clark to murder mirror Lionel. Really? None of the other league members would be willing to kill him? Not even Oliver, who already wanted to murder him but murdered his son instead because he was the next best thing? Not even bomb-setting eco-terrorist Aquaman, or Cyborg, who was made into a freak by LuthorCorp? Need I remind you that Lionel Luthor has no powers and not even a bodyguard?


He does have a bodyguard. But besides that, the real issue is that Tess shouldn't be expecting any heroes to do that for her. It's morally repugnant. Thankfully she learns this as the episode progresses.

Lex Vader wrote:
Lois knows about the history of Al Capone. Yeah right, writers. You and your Wikipedia aren't selling me this one.


Uh, why wouldn't she? It's fairly much common knowledge.

Lex Vader wrote:
Tess and Lois are going to prove that Lionel is from another universe. Uh-huh. That's entirely possible, despite him having Lionel's DNA and being, well, Lionel. You don't really have to cover up the fact that you magically came from an alternate universe. It's not even illegal, in fact.


Okay, i have to call you out on this. Where, in any country's law, is there anything even remotely related to an issue like this?

Lex Vader wrote:
Conner superspies on Clark when he's talking to Tess in that really stilted way where people talk in detail about exactly what they don't want someone to find out only when that person is listening, but he didn't bother eavesdropping when Clark had a twenty-seven minute conversation with Lois about the same thing. Brilliant writing! If it's not onscreen, it doesn't have to make sense! And if it's onscreen, it's okay if it contradicts something as long as its by way of omission!


Yes, that was a little convenient, but it certainly wasn't the worst thing this show has done. We've certainly seen Clark's super-hearing kick in at the most inopportune time before.

Lex Vader wrote:
Tess has Lois go and risk her life spying on Lionel instead of having Green Arrow do it. And why? Because Oliver left town permanently to live somewhere else without telling anybody or giving any reason until after the fact. And as always, Lois doesn't tell her fiancee what she's doing because it has to be seeeeeeeeeecret. You have to work hard to be this dumb.


Yeah, she should have told Clark what she was doing, i agree. She placed herself in a great deal of danger needlessly.

Lex Vader wrote:
Conner snoops around the totally not destroyed mansion. How does he know where the mansion is, or even who Lex was? He's not supposed to know ANYTHING. Why would Tess tell him about Lex?


Hmmm, that's actually a fair point. If he doesn't know anything, there is no logical reason why he would know about the mansion.

Lex Vader wrote:
Lionel is so sad that Conner is emo, and he read about "them" making him emo in Conner's file. Right, uh... I mean... who? Didn't Lex Luthor set up the whole clone racket? He's the one who stole Clark's blood and mixed it with his clone, or at least somehow, despite being dead, instructed invisible scientists to try something like that. Was that NOT in the file?


Lex was working on clones well and truly before his untimely demise. It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility to think that he experimented with Clark's DNA also to try and reach the truth.

Lex Vader wrote:
Lex Luthor created an empire? I don't remember that.


He certainly did a decent job at the helm of Luthor Corp. Wouldn't you call that an empire? Given, he didn't create it, but i don't think that's either here nor there.

Lex Vader wrote:
Lionel isn't admitting he's from another dimension. After all his research, wouldn't it make more sense for Lionel to say he created an empire for Lex? That's just basic writing logic.


Technicality, but fair.

Lex Vader wrote:
Lois is at a slaughterhouse so no one will hear her scream. Yeah, cause no one works at slaughterhouses and they can just let the meat sit out unfrozen all night with no security and not worry about health risks or robberies or anything. This makes total sense. To a baby. Okay, I'm a bad liar. Babies know better.


Lol, only you would think of this. Really, is there anywhere he could have taken her where these sorts of things wouldn't be an issue? There's going to be security at pretty much any facility around the clock. I suppose he could have taken her to a Luthor Corp facility, but even then, there's still the worries about a security guard taking issue with what he might hear.

Lex Vader wrote:
It bears reiterating that I HAAAAAAAAAATE this Lionel Luthor. He's the most un-nuanced character I've seen outside of a Bruce Willis movie.


He's unapologetically brutal. I think it's actually a fresh take on the character. Where as the Lionel we knew was more sophisticated with his scheming, this Lionel is just flat out evil and upfront about it. Where as the Lionel we knew would have other people do his work for him, this Lionel doesn't mind getting his hands dirty. He's a true villain, and is uncompromising about getting what he wants. To this end, you would have to think Tess' days are numbered, having taken him on.

Lex Vader wrote:
Conner is on red K because the writers literally can't even write a brand new character for thirty minutes without making him out of character.


I think it was just meant to be reminiscent of the start of season 3. I actually quite enjoyed seeing Clark in the role Jonathon was in, and Conner being in the role that Clark had previously been in.

Lex Vader wrote:
Conner's ring has a tracking device in it. Yeah, that makes sense when Lionel already said he was being tracked at superspeed when he left the Kent farm.


I must say, i don't see how he could possibly track someone who is moving faster than the eye can see. Once he put the ring on at least it made sense.

Lex Vader wrote:
Apparently, red K makes you as stupid as a glowing red rock, as Conner takes Lois to the condemned mansion that Lionel knows about to be "safe." Really, I mean... even being virtually a newborn baby, nobody can be that braindead. That's like Indiana Jones saving Marion and taking her to Hitler's house. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?


He's just a kid. He figures because he's with Lois he can protect her, so any place is "safe".

Lex Vader wrote:
Oh, Lionel's fingerprints are mirrors of the real Lionel's. GOD HOW INCREDIBLY CONVENIENT! Also, it turns out he has a birthmark on his ass that says, "I am an evil twin from an alternate universe."


Come on dude, it does make sense when you think about it. I thought it was actually a clever (albeit convenient) way to trip him up.

Lex Vader wrote:
Yeesh, what a pathetic and meaningless ending. SHOCK AND AWE! Really, you couldn't muster up one riveting line of dialogue for Smokey Dark Crowseid to say that would make us interested in the storyline instead of just leaving us completely ignorant about the season's direction?


They could have had him say something, but i think they want us to wonder. Now we all have questions about where they are going with this, which i'm guessing is exactly what they want.

Lex Vader wrote:
What a piece of crap misguided fan service episode. So many smacks in the face with the Continuity Cod of Lip Service. That's all it was! Every piece of dialogue, stupid lip service. Every scene, stupid reference to a past episode. The show is just stealing from ITSELF now. And the only original thing in the episode was just stolen from the comics and taken totally out of context.


I thought they walked the line between paying homage and ripping themselves off quite well. I enjoyed seeing an episode which was like the Smallville of old.

Lex Vader wrote:
Aw, but it would have been so HARD to explain how Lex even set up a cloning operation, let alone how or why he'd use Clark's DNA but only in ONE of his clones! Actually, it wouldn't. They could easily explain that Clark's DNA was needed to stabilize the faulty clones. I mean, that wouldn't really make sense because if they can't get ONE DNA structure right, they certainly wouldn't be able to get TWO DNA structures right. Common sense! But then, that wouldn't matter on Smallville. And it wouldn't even matter that the reason their DNA was combined in the comics was because they weren't able to properly clone Kryptonian DNA, and in fact weren't even able to give Conner the same powers, because Smallville didn't bother to explain their version at all. So who cares if it totally misses the point of the character, because it's magic.


They did explain that Clark's DNA was necessary to stop the "Accelerated mitosis". You have a point about the comics, but this is Smallville, and they always do things differently. Look at what they've done with the lead character, for God's sake.

Lex Vader wrote:
I would give this episode a 3, just to prove how incredibly average it was. I can't even be bothered to hate it. It's that vapid. It's crap. This whole season is crap. And I mean that quite literally. People say crap to mean something is awful, but in reality, crap is just common and unremarkable and made without effect by almost every animal on Earth. "Feet" would be another good description of Smallville. Unless you have a foot fetish. Smallville is just feet. Wasn't that a boring description? There, you understand Smallville perfectly now. The full scope of its quality has just formed as a crystal clear image in your mind. It's feet.


I really think you're being overly harsh on this episode. Sure, we've had some doozies this season, but i think this episode was honestly a step in the right direction. This was more like what we should have been seeing all season.

Lex Vader wrote:
Hang on a minute... did Clark wear his Blur jacket when doing heroic stuff or his glasses when not? No? MINUS THREE POINTS.


He wasn't at the Daily Planet at all, or even out at a crime scene or in the general public....it just wasn't necessary this episode.

Lex Vader wrote:
Also, 500th post.


Congrats. Smile

Edited by krypto-mac on 08/03/2011 23:05


To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
xbladed
Lol, those were some good responces to to Lex's Bizzaro take on things.

Now since u guys like discussing what doesn't make sense. I have a question on what u think about this issue. Lex for your clear gonna crush it, and mock it thoughts, and Krypto for some hopfully less sinical theory as to why. a problem that I havn't figured out all day..
here it is..

So I'm watching season 7 again.. and clearly season 10 as it air's on tv. All the clones of Lex had excellerated growth problems, Until Conner, because of Clarks dna. Now in season 7, the first half of the season we have Julian, Lex's brother who he clones.. He's perfectly fine. no excelerated growth problems.. so how does Lex go from making a perfect Julian to not being able to clone himself properly?.. Thats my question looking forward to your guys take on it...
 
Lex Vader
I wouldn't take too much away from them for not physically showing his patrolling at this stage.

So, should I wait until season 11 to complain about it? It's not about them not showing it. It's about them using stock footage of him speeding home and then having him hang up his supersecret jacket in the kitchen like he's Mister Rogers. Incidentally, why does their front door open into the kitchen? Especially after Clark rebuilt the house.

He did suspect that, which is why he had the sample tested.

Yeah, by a butcher. That makes sense. But he believed her. He doubted. Lionel never used to act like that. The real Lionel wouldn't believe such a terrible lie. I mean, she shows him a tube and says she destroyed Alexander by fire? That was a weak excuse which didn't even work for more than a few hours. What was the point? The sequence served no purpose. Again, it's like they're trying to mimic writing they've seen on TV, but getting it wrong. The scene works if we THE AUDIENCE don't know whether Conner's alive, but we already know. And this doesn't make Lionel look any more resourceful than usual, since somebody from LuthorCorp is ALWAYS having something tested and getting magical proof of things.

He has powers, he wants to use them to save people and do incredible things....what's the problem exactly?

Uh, the point is that over two weeks, he had to learn to read and write and wipe his butt and yet he's already sick of being cooped up in a barn that he's only spent a few minutes in. It's rushed and unnatural and would have benefitted from some buildup instead of introducing essentially a new character and giving him all these teens issues in one episode. All they were doing it reiterating the first four years of Smallville in the space of 40 minutes for no reason. And there is no reason for this character to be on the show except to emphasize how far away they've gotten from the show's premise.

i don't think you can fault her because she didn't realize what was going on with Conner inside 5 minutes.

Um, when your fiance who's never had any real friends or made any new ones in all the time you've known him is caught in a dimly lit barn with an underage boy, you better have at least ONE question form in your brain, or else you need to see a specialist.

I was actually happy with the throw-back to earlier continuity.

How is it better to be watching this story than to have the Helen Bryce mystery wrapped up? If they don't remember it, fine. But once they name check her, it's obviously going to make them look pretty stupid for bringing up a loose end when they have no intention of tying it up. Didn't someone get ahold of Clark's blood in season 9? Why make a longer callback than necessary just to retcon it anyway?

He does have a bodyguard.

He does not. Meat scientist was never guarding his body. In fact, he was so busy he didn't bother to take off his apron. That's not a bodyguard.

But besides that, the real issue is that Tess shouldn't be expecting any heroes to do that for her. It's morally repugnant.

The whole show is morally repugnant, so that's beside the point. If she's willing to ask that, then obviously she'd sooner ask someone who didn't need as much convincing. It's convenient writing to act like Clark is the only option, and honestly the only reason that happened was so she could involve Lois, so Lois could get kidnapped, so Conner could save her, etc. But the initial reason for it was a throwaway line about MURDER, and that's lazy.

Where, in any country's law, is there anything even remotely related to an issue like this?

I said it's NOT ILLEGAL to be from an alternate universe. GET IT? The fact that there turned out to be something parallel-universe-based that Lionel had to cover up was SHEER COINCIDENCE. There was every possibility that his alibi was airtight, because WHAT he had to cover up is IMPOSSIBLE, and not a crime.

It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility to think that he experimented with Clark's DNA

Uh, I was questioning Lionel's statement about what "they" did to Conner when it seems apparent that Lex fully intended to make Conner half-Clark, or else his scientists take way too much initiative. Nobody did anything "to" Conner. He was made this way. It's an awkward way for Lionel to show his disgust. In fact, I'm not even sure why he's disgusted seeing as how Clark was his favorite son, and such a hybrid would be a better Lex in his eyes. Honestly, this just falls apart the more you pick at it. Mirror Lionel's motivations have not made a lick of sense.

He certainly did a decent job at the helm of Luthor Corp. Wouldn't you call that an empire? Given, he didn't create it, but i don't think that's either here nor there.

It's just clumsy dialogue. There's no reason it couldn't have been edited to, "I created an empire for Lex, and it's your birthright," as long as he's pretending to be this world's Lionel. All Lex did was run a business, honestly. It's a simple question of making sure the dialogue doesn't contradict continuity when it doesn't have to.

Really, is there anywhere he could have taken her where these sorts of things wouldn't be an issue?

I'm questioning their NEED to make it a slaugherhouse when it had no relevance to the plot whatsoever. Basically, he took her to a room and then tried to shoot her. Why a slaughterhouse? Why did his scientist henchmen seem to work there? They COULD write a line or two into the script that gives this a sense of reality. But no, it's all superficial.

He's a true villain, and is uncompromising about getting what he wants.

I think he's quite possibly the worst written character this show has ever thrown at us. His motivations make no sense even given what little background we know about him. The only thing that explains his actions is that everyone from the mirror world is cartoonishly evil because it's really bizarro-world and they think "evil" means "good." And as we all know, Bizarro-logic doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

I think it was just meant to be reminiscent of the start of season 3.

Dude, you're not listening to me. They wedge this teen Lex into an episode after months of not mentioning where he went, then in this episode they change him into a completely different character. And that's not enough, because then they have to make him evil again less than halfway through the story because they can't think of a RATIONAL conflict. With Clark, he'd been in two entire seasons before they had him stealing cars in Metropolis, and that was because he was racked with guilt over killing his baby brother. This was just because "Lex is evil." I'm sorry, but Clark's red K episodes were well written. So this is a shoddy ripoff. Conner didn't live his whole life with a lower class family that forced him to make compromises all the time. HE DOESN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF ANGST. But the worst thing about this episode's approach is that they're giving us more emo teen drama bullcrap when we'd finally moved past that, just to remind us of how Clark used to be a character. Nobody was missing that. The drama, I mean. Not Clark having any character. And they did it with a piece of paper that says "Superboy" on it. It's pathetic and missing so many points I can't even count them all.

He's just a kid. He figures because he's with Lois he can protect her, so any place is "safe".

You're really slipping, man. I don't care how you justify his actions. It's still terrible writing just based on the fact that he took Lois to the place where he first met Lionel TO KEEP HER SAFE FROM LIONEL. Teens are a lot of things, but they're not that stupid. You don't hide from the cops in a police station.

Come on dude, it does make sense when you think about it. I thought it was actually a clever (albeit convenient) way to trip him up.

I don't even know you anymore. They can't just say that he has reverse fingerprints without setting it up at all. It's a copout. That's a deus ex machina. It means they thought of it on the spot. There's no reason this season's outline couldn't have ideas about what they were going to do and what the rules are.

Now we all have questions about where they are going with this, which i'm guessing is exactly what they want.

And I know you know damn well how they answer questions on this show. In dialogue about offscreen events that are full of holes because no one actually bothered to write the scene that they're refering to. At the very least, they could have made the scene have A POINT instead of being there purely as a mysterious cliffhanger that makes you wonder what 100% of it means or is leading to. That's not a good way to write a cliffhanger. No one would ever say the scene where Darkseid appears to Lionel and does nothing was a well written scene. There's a difference between intrigue and ignorance.

I thought they walked the line between paying homage and ripping themselves off quite well.

Well, it was crap. They offered us nothing original. The whole fight scene was stolen from the Clark/Jonathan fight scene, only dragged out a little bit more. It even ended in nearly the exact same way. That's not what I'd call homage. And when you start paying homage to yourself, that just means you've run out of ideas. I know I said this was just mediocre, and that really still stands, because it was so redundant, but I'd almost say it was worse than Collateral, because at least with that, a hardcore Chloe fan could enjoy seeing her be every character from The Matrix. This just had a Napoleon-sized copy of Clark doing the exact same bloody things that Clark did back when the show was good. Only problem is, I DON'T CARE ABOUT CLARK'S MINI-ME! Why would I? He has no original character traits! Even his angst is borrowed! He might have made a better Clark Kent in a cast full of midgets, but that doesn't have any bearing on Smallville.

They did explain that Clark's DNA was necessary to stop the "Accelerated mitosis".

Uhhhh, I might be wrong, but I don't think they did. He clearly ALWAYS had Clark's DNA, and he was already aging rapidly. So that doesn't make sense. It's not like Tess injected him with Clark's DNA to save him. That didn't happen. He just suddenly changed into Conner Kent. Tess mentioned the mitosis to Lionel when she was lying, but at no point do I remember her saying Clark's DNA was "necessary," because that implies it was done on purpose, when they already made it clear she was surprised to find that Conner was invulnerable.

This was more like what we should have been seeing all season.

No. We should not have been seeing a clone of Clark acting like Clark used to instead of seeing Clark actually keep his word and become the hero of his destiny. That is a terrible idea, just like this episode. It was nothing but vapid fan service, just like almost every episode this year. There was no reason to care about anything that happened in this episode, because there is no reason for us to care about new characters like Conner or Lie-nell. What the season should have done is focused on the main characters, not wasted time with cameos and references and having the characters change overnight every week.

They ripped off Stray and Ryan and Heat and Exile and Phoenix and gave us nothing new except the ability to turn one character into another if you don't have a use for him. Pathetic.

Edited by Lex Vader on 09/03/2011 03:14

 
krypto-mac
xbladed wrote:
So I'm watching season 7 again.. and clearly season 10 as it air's on tv. All the clones of Lex had excellerated growth problems, Until Conner, because of Clarks dna. Now in season 7, the first half of the season we have Julian, Lex's brother who he clones.. He's perfectly fine. no excelerated growth problems.. so how does Lex go from making a perfect Julian to not being able to clone himself properly?.. Thats my question looking forward to your guys take on it...


Well there's a couple of ways you could choose to look at it. The first is that Julian was just a once off, because if you remember, there was also an attempted Julian clone that went horribly wrong.
The second, is that it was a writing error. Plain and simple.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
krypto-mac
Lex Vader wrote:
I wouldn't take too much away from them for not physically showing his patrolling at this stage.

So, should I wait until season 11 to complain about it? It's not about them not showing it. It's about them using stock footage of him speeding home and then having him hang up his supersecret jacket in the kitchen like he's Mister Rogers. Incidentally, why does their front door open into the kitchen? Especially after Clark rebuilt the house.


For one, i actually think that's their back door. We've seen them use the front door a ton of times, which opens up into the hallway near the stairs.
For seconds, i just don't see the problem with them using that stock footage. It's just an easy way to let us know that he was out saving people. Yes, it would be nice to see it....but they've got a lot of other loose ends to tie up, and an episode where he just spends the entire time saving people would be a bit monotonous. That would be a very one dimensional show, and i'm glad they try to give us a bit more meat to work with.

Lex Vader wrote:
He did suspect that, which is why he had the sample tested.

Yeah, by a butcher. That makes sense. But he believed her. He doubted. Lionel never used to act like that. The real Lionel wouldn't believe such a terrible lie. I mean, she shows him a tube and says she destroyed Alexander by fire? That was a weak excuse which didn't even work for more than a few hours. What was the point? The sequence served no purpose. Again, it's like they're trying to mimic writing they've seen on TV, but getting it wrong. The scene works if we THE AUDIENCE don't know whether Conner's alive, but we already know. And this doesn't make Lionel look any more resourceful than usual, since somebody from LuthorCorp is ALWAYS having something tested and getting magical proof of things.


Yes, we knew Conner was alive - and it still works. Because it shows that she is trying to protect Conner. Again though, Lionel didn't believe her, that was the whole reason he had the sample tested. He didn't believe it for a second, he wanted proof.

Lex Vader wrote:
He has powers, he wants to use them to save people and do incredible things....what's the problem exactly?

Uh, the point is that over two weeks, he had to learn to read and write and wipe his butt and yet he's already sick of being cooped up in a barn that he's only spent a few minutes in. It's rushed and unnatural and would have benefitted from some buildup instead of introducing essentially a new character and giving him all these teens issues in one episode. All they were doing it reiterating the first four years of Smallville in the space of 40 minutes for no reason. And there is no reason for this character to be on the show except to emphasize how far away they've gotten from the show's premise.


I can't disagree that it was all a bit rushed, but again, if it means they get to spend more time on the Darkseid plot now, i'm not going to argue with it.

Lex Vader wrote:
i don't think you can fault her because she didn't realize what was going on with Conner inside 5 minutes.

Um, when your fiance who's never had any real friends or made any new ones in all the time you've known him is caught in a dimly lit barn with an underage boy, you better have at least ONE question form in your brain, or else you need to see a specialist.


Yes, she might question where he came from, anyone would. But you can't fault her for not catching on about his powers. But she did have questions, thus her's and Clark's talk in the kitchen.

Lex Vader wrote:
I was actually happy with the throw-back to earlier continuity.

How is it better to be watching this story than to have the Helen Bryce mystery wrapped up? If they don't remember it, fine. But once they name check her, it's obviously going to make them look pretty stupid for bringing up a loose end when they have no intention of tying it up. Didn't someone get ahold of Clark's blood in season 9? Why make a longer callback than necessary just to retcon it anyway?


Come on dude, the Helen Bryce thing was years ago now, they don't need to tie it up now with everything else that's going on. It's long over. Clark doesn't know what happened to her, he was just stating a fact about the blood sample she had.

Lex Vader wrote:
He does have a bodyguard.

He does not. Meat scientist was never guarding his body. In fact, he was so busy he didn't bother to take off his apron. That's not a bodyguard.


I'd have to re-watch it to be sure, but i thought the guy with him in the lab was his body guard.

Lex Vader wrote:
But besides that, the real issue is that Tess shouldn't be expecting any heroes to do that for her. It's morally repugnant.

It's convenient writing to act like Clark is the only option, and honestly the only reason that happened was so she could involve Lois, so Lois could get kidnapped, so Conner could save her, etc.


Yes, it's called writing a story. One element does often flow onto and even cause the next. That's how all stories work.

Lex Vader wrote:
Where, in any country's law, is there anything even remotely related to an issue like this?

I said it's NOT ILLEGAL to be from an alternate universe. GET IT? The fact that there turned out to be something parallel-universe-based that Lionel had to cover up was SHEER COINCIDENCE. There was every possibility that his alibi was airtight, because WHAT he had to cover up is IMPOSSIBLE, and not a crime.


I get what you're saying, but you can't talk factually about legalities pertaining to an impossibility, because there are no laws covering this area. It wasn't coincidence that there was evidence against Lionel, it was quick thinking by Tess.

Lex Vader wrote:
It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility to think that he experimented with Clark's DNA

Uh, I was questioning Lionel's statement about what "they" did to Conner when it seems apparent that Lex fully intended to make Conner half-Clark, or else his scientists take way too much initiative. Nobody did anything "to" Conner. He was made this way. It's an awkward way for Lionel to show his disgust. In fact, I'm not even sure why he's disgusted seeing as how Clark was his favorite son, and such a hybrid would be a better Lex in his eyes. Honestly, this just falls apart the more you pick at it. Mirror Lionel's motivations have not made a lick of sense.


Mirror Lionel wants to be with his son....not Clark, his son. He wants to create an empire with him, and he'll do anything to achieve that end. He's cold-blooded and brutal, calculating and callous, and he won't let anything stand in his way. I thought his motives were pretty black and white.

Lex Vader wrote:
He certainly did a decent job at the helm of Luthor Corp. Wouldn't you call that an empire? Given, he didn't create it, but i don't think that's either here nor there.

It's just clumsy dialogue. There's no reason it couldn't have been edited to, "I created an empire for Lex, and it's your birthright," as long as he's pretending to be this world's Lionel. All Lex did was run a business, honestly. It's a simple question of making sure the dialogue doesn't contradict continuity when it doesn't have to.


Okay, the dialogue was a little off, i won't argue that.

Lex Vader wrote:
Really, is there anywhere he could have taken her where these sorts of things wouldn't be an issue?

I'm questioning their NEED to make it a slaugherhouse when it had no relevance to the plot whatsoever. Basically, he took her to a room and then tried to shoot her. Why a slaughterhouse? Why did his scientist henchmen seem to work there? They COULD write a line or two into the script that gives this a sense of reality. But no, it's all superficial.


Okay, so where would you have had him take her? He couldn't do it at Luthor Corp, there would be too many cameras and too many people outside when they were trying to get rid of the body. I thought somewhere far and out of the way made sense.

Lex Vader wrote:
He's a true villain, and is uncompromising about getting what he wants.

I think he's quite possibly the worst written character this show has ever thrown at us.


Really? I think you're being overly harsh on the show. For once, we have a brutal uncompromising villain. I think that could be entertaining to watch. Perhaps he is more evil because he's from the mirror world, but there's nothing wrong with that - it makes for good viewing.

Lex Vader wrote:
I think it was just meant to be reminiscent of the start of season 3.

Dude, you're not listening to me. They wedge this teen Lex into an episode after months of not mentioning where he went,


Months? It was a couple of weeks, and quite possibly even less in the show's timeline.

Lex Vader wrote:
then in this episode they change him into a completely different character. And that's not enough, because then they have to make him evil again less than halfway through the story because they can't think of a RATIONAL conflict.


Look man, they just wanted to do a call-back to season 3 using red kryptonite, only with Clark in the role of Jonathon. You're either gonna love it or hate it, and clearly you fall on the latter.

Lex Vader wrote:
He's just a kid. He figures because he's with Lois he can protect her, so any place is "safe".

You're really slipping, man. I don't care how you justify his actions. It's still terrible writing just based on the fact that he took Lois to the place where he first met Lionel TO KEEP HER SAFE FROM LIONEL. Teens are a lot of things, but they're not that stupid. You don't hide from the cops in a police station.


Maybe a fair point, but they also have a pretty limited number of sets and an even tighter budget. What would you have had them do? The only other option would be Watch Tower, except he has no way of knowing about Watch Tower.

Lex Vader wrote:
Come on dude, it does make sense when you think about it. I thought it was actually a clever (albeit convenient) way to trip him up.

I don't even know you anymore. They can't just say that he has reverse fingerprints without setting it up at all. It's a copout. That's a deus ex machina. It means they thought of it on the spot. There's no reason this season's outline couldn't have ideas about what they were going to do and what the rules are.


If he's from a mirror world, why couldn't he have reversed finger prints? It could have done with a little setting up, granted. Maybe him not being able to pass a fingerprint scan for one of his facilities at some stage, or something of the kind....but it's really not that huge a problem.

Lex Vader wrote:
Now we all have questions about where they are going with this, which i'm guessing is exactly what they want.

And I know you know damn well how they answer questions on this show. In dialogue about offscreen events that are full of holes because no one actually bothered to write the scene that they're refering to. At the very least, they could have made the scene have A POINT instead of being there purely as a mysterious cliffhanger that makes you wonder what 100% of it means or is leading to. That's not a good way to write a cliffhanger.


Actually, having absolutely no idea where something is headed is the entire point of a cliff hanger. But even then, it seems Darkseid is going to bring Lex back.

Lex Vader wrote:
I thought they walked the line between paying homage and ripping themselves off quite well.

Well, it was crap. They offered us nothing original. The whole fight scene was stolen from the Clark/Jonathan fight scene, only dragged out a little bit more. It even ended in nearly the exact same way. That's not what I'd call homage. And when you start paying homage to yourself, that just means you've run out of ideas.


Taste is subjective. You felt it was crap, okay. But there were those of us who watched this and enjoyed the throw-back to Smallville of old.

Lex Vader wrote:
They did explain that Clark's DNA was necessary to stop the "Accelerated mitosis".

Uhhhh, I might be wrong, but I don't think they did. He clearly ALWAYS had Clark's DNA, and he was already aging rapidly.


Yes but it stabilized. That's the whole point.

Lex Vader wrote:
So that doesn't make sense. It's not like Tess injected him with Clark's DNA to save him. That didn't happen. He just suddenly changed into Conner Kent. Tess mentioned the mitosis to Lionel when she was lying, but at no point do I remember her saying Clark's DNA was "necessary," because that implies it was done on purpose, when they already made it clear she was surprised to find that Conner was invulnerable.


She was surprised, but that doesn't mean that the use of Clark's DNA was accidental. It was just something she didn't know about until that point.

Lex Vader wrote:
This was more like what we should have been seeing all season.

No. We should not have been seeing a clone of Clark acting like Clark used to instead of seeing Clark actually keep his word and become the hero of his destiny. That is a terrible idea, just like this episode.


They're building towards that. You're not going to see Superman until the finale, i think you need to deal with that.

Lex Vader wrote:
They ripped off Stray and Ryan and Heat and Exile and Phoenix and gave us nothing new except the ability to turn one character into another if you don't have a use for him. Pathetic.


I'd say, "paid homage" and did it quite nicely, in fact.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
Lex Vader
For seconds, i just don't see the problem with them using that stock footage.

It's become formulaic, and it serves to emphasize the things they they're not showing us. Like if we saw Clark take his glasses out of his pocket and SMASH THEM INTO DUST, then flip off the camera. Also, it makes Superman look like a boring job on a sitcom that never gets shown. You seriously don't have a problem with the fact that Clark is basically already Superman, but entirely offscreen where we never get to see it? That makes this show all about his whiny domestic drama. It makes this the Desperate Housewives of the Superman franchise. Is that what we signed up for? It's one thing if he's not fighting crime YET. It's another to say he is, but intentionally not show it. We used to revel in the scenes that were the MOST like Superman. Now we're being deprived of them. That's BS. Also, Clark hanging up his superhero costume in the living room is beyond careless.

He didn't believe it for a second, he wanted proof.

Next time, maybe they'll make sure to have him say, "That's not true! That's impossible! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!" But I think he got it across well enough by not saying, "What kind of a fool do you think I am? You cannot deceive the Prince of Lies! Mwuahahahaha!"

if it means they get to spend more time on the Darkseid plot now, i'm not going to argue with it.

If they wanted to spend any time at all on the Darkseid plot, they wouldn't have written this episode at all. Or Fortune. Or half the episodes this season. They don't care about the Darkseid story. That's why we never got an explanation for how his minions ended up on Earth, one of them for about twenty years, when Darkseid only slipped in because of whatever Zod did on the roof. And believe me, they're not going to explain it either. This subplot is just to get people's hopes up for an exciting finale which will probably be a huge letdown whether it has a two minute fight scene or not.

Yes, she might question where he came from, anyone would. But you can't fault her for not catching on about his powers. But she did have questions, thus her's and Clark's talk in the kitchen.

You're still not listening. She just basically went, "Oh, hi," to a mysterious stranger in the barn, ignoring him as if it was a commonplace event, and the roof practically had to fall on her head before she raised an eyebrow. It's bad writing that shows they don't care about their characters as much as setting up a cheesy joke that they thought was so brilliant in the writing room.

Come on dude, the Helen Bryce thing was years ago now, they don't need to tie it up now with everything else that's going on.

Exactly, which is why they had no business reminding me of that loose end that would have made a much better cameo than Aquaman's girlfriend. It's also completely unnecessary to have Clark explaining their nonsense character twist with theories when he has NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. It's them glossing over the details of something that should be more important than a throwaway episode with a throwaway backstory. Yep, Lex had Clark's blood years ago. Does that explain Conner Kent? No, it does not.

Yes, it's called writing a story. One element does often flow onto and even cause the next. That's how all stories work.

And when the event that sets everything else in motion is based on false pretense, everything else being connected by coincidence, then it's called writing a story BADLY. See, there's an important difference between having Spider-Man's black suit come out of a story, and having the suit magically appear only to facilitate a story about him and Venom. That's why the comics are awesome, the cartoon was well done, and the Spider-Man 3 movie was excrement.

I get what you're saying, but you can't talk factually about legalities pertaining to an impossibility, because there are no laws covering this area.

Are you intentionally not listening just because you liked this episode? I'm saying that there is no danger of Tess convincing a court that Lionel is from an alternate universe, because no one would ever believe that. And for her to think that the sheer FACT that he's from an alternate universe meant there must be some evidence PROVING that is faulty. She and Lois were acting the same way as if Lionel had committed a CRIME, which was not the case. In point of fact, all they had to do was exhume Lionel's body, but that would be too logical. Smallville has to solve everything with magic.

It wasn't coincidence that there was evidence against Lionel, it was quick thinking by Tess.

Excuse me, but yes it was a bloody coincidence. She did not KNOW that Lionel's fingerprints were mirror images of the real Lionel. Nobody knew that. But she even said, "As you know," as if we were already told this and forgot it. It's a copout. They could have written anything there. It's a dumb way of getting rid of him, especially when she didn't even tell him to GO BACK TO HIS OWN UNIVERSE. Do we really want him sticking around when he's this freaking evil, even if he doesn't own a large corporation? Any number of people could die as a result of him being in this universe. And just as they were wrong to keep Clark out of the initial problem, they were wrong to keep him out of the solution. Especially if you consider that, however misguided, Tess is essentially Clark's employee. It's just poorly executed all around, and looking like a red herring anyway since Lionel still isn't gone.

Mirror Lionel wants to be with his son....not Clark, his son. He wants to create an empire with him, and he'll do anything to achieve that end.

You're really buying into this nonsense, aren't you? It would be one thing to accept a lame story. It's another when the story contradicts itself. For one, he never even said he regretted having Ultra-Clark kill Lex. Sorry, but you don't just change your mind about decisions like that, especially when you are admittedly evil. Second, there was no real problem shown between Lionel and Ultra-Clark. UC just happened to get zapped into our universe, and yes, it turned out that Mirror Tess was turning UC against Lionel, but the two never even had a scene together. They would have met when UC got zapped back to the mirror universe before Lionel came over, but they didn't even have the courtesy of telling us what might have happened in that scene. Thirdly, he comes from a universe where he basically owns everything, and as I've already stated, it makes little to no sense for him to want to start from scratch in another universe. Nobody would do that. President Obama wouldn't resign just so he could have the thrill of running for office again. Nor would he skip out on his duties and go to an alternate universe just because he didn't happen to be President there. Nor would Hitler or Genghis Khan or anybody. Sure, Ming the Merciless would conquer Earth and other planets in ADDITION to ruling Mongo, but even the most insane dictator isn't going to give up everything he has just to regain the same thing. IT IS ASININE. And lastly, he doesn't regret killing Lex. He doesn't want to love Lex. He has explicitly stated that he wants Lex to be EVIL. He TOLD him to embrace his dark side. He doesn't have loving, regretful intentions like a normal character would. And the fact is, in a "realistic" show, as the CW claims this is, you can't have a villain who actually knows he's evil. People don't act that way, except for Charles Manson, who is full of crap. Well written villains ALWAYS believe themselves to be good and in the right. That used to be a THEME of this show. And that's why this character missed the boat and has ended up insulting the show instead of paying homage to it.

Okay, so where would you have had him take her?

It's not my job to come up with ideas for this show. But sudden slaughterhouses are laugh-out-loud ridiculous in a show like this that only has a few sets. It stands out like a sore thumb wearing a Superman cape and playing "Poker Face" on a kazoo. This is 1940's badguy shtick and it doesn't fit here at all. For the record, I would have had him tie Lois to the railroad tracks. We know they have the location! And it would be much less silly. He'd need to grow a long moustache, but he probably has a magic artifact that can do that.

For once, we have a brutal uncompromising villain.

If I want to watch a cartoon, I'll watch one. I don't need to see them desecrate the grave of a great character by making him sub-dimensional with no rational motivation and no backstory. The aliens have a little more leg room in this regard, but they still have to have a solid foundation for the way they act. This is a hell of a lot worse than Zod and his army, because at least they could be considered desperate and wayward. Lionel intentionally came to our world to go from riches to rags, and that just goes against basic animal survival instincts, let alone human logic.

Months? It was a couple of weeks

I was refering to the gap between "Harvest" and "Beacon" where we didn't see Alexander. This being followed by his reintroduction and then instantaneous transformation into Conner Kent with literally a 90 second warning. They would NEVER have done that with any other character on the show, as evidence by the fact that they didn't.

Maybe a fair point, but they also have a pretty limited number of sets and an even tighter budget.

Exactly why there are certain things that they shouldn't write. I.E. - Conner meets Lionel at location A; Lionel takes Conner to location B, where Conner stops him from shooting Lois; Conner takes Lois to location C to keep her safe, which is the same as location A. OOPS! At the very least, they could have simplified it by having Conner NOT KNOW ABOUT THE MANSION and track down Lionel, or vice versa, somewhere else. An ice cream shop, for instance. Or maybe the surface of Venus, or a clown's house. Anything less ridiculous than a slaughterhouse. Lionel already has Lois there, and then Conner takes her to the mansion.

The point being that, even in MOST episodes, a place of kidnapping is usually established in the story beforehand with some amount of logic. With Metallo, we saw that he lived in that boiler room basement. Here, suddenly Lionel is at a slaughterhouse getting DNA results from a butcher. WHAT!?? If that's due to a deleted scene, the omission makes this look random and weird. Mac, if they had SAID they needed a remote place and explained how they acquired it, I would only be complaining half as much. But they were lazy, again, and it always shows. In neon.

why couldn't he have reversed finger prints? It could have done with a little setting up, granted. ....but it's really not that huge a problem.

I'm not going to explain deus ex machina to you, because I know you understand it. And to avoid that, yes it is important to set things up, no matter in how small a detail. There's no REASON for them to have not set up even a hint of this convenient backwards fingerprint fact either earlier in the episode or some other week. It would still probably be a dumb copout, but it would be less of one. In order for it to work, they'd really have to have done something in "Luthor," where anything - anything at all - was backwards from our reality, and not just personalities as a result of circumstance. If it was genuinely Bizarro World, I'd be more inclined to accept it. But instead, it was just a world where Clark HAPPENED to be evil, him being the focus of the story. But it didn't mean that Richard Nixon was a nice guy and Gary Coleman was the world's tallest man. So the fingerprint thing is based on nothing but the word "mirror," which is just something that sounded cool but probably had no basis in the lives of most of the world's inhabitants. And unless we see Jonathan Kent stabbing nuns next week, I think I'm right.

Actually, having absolutely no idea where something is headed is the entire point of a cliff hanger.

That's not even remotely true. Literally, a cliffhanger means someone is hanging off the edge of a cliff. You know one of two things is going to happen. Either they're going to fall, or they're going to be rescued. Actually, you know they're going to be rescued because they're the main characters. But you are given a brief sense of danger to keep you invested between the two stories. A cliffhanger is not just someone turning blue and growing a monkey tail and leaving you to wonder why on Earth that would happen. I'm not saying this wasn't a cliffhanger. I'm saying it was a very bad one. All they had to do was have Darkseid say something like, "I'm going to turn your head into ground beef and use your limbs as toothpicks." Boom, cliffhanger material. You have a statement about the threat against a character, and you want to see how he gets out of it. However, even in that circumstance, it's still a poor cliffhanger because YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT EVIL LIONEL. You WANT to see him die! That is why the cliffhangers of most season finales, and in fact most episodes, involve the main characters heading for misfortune. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS BEST. THIS, on the other hand, is just a holdover from the terrible conception of Darkseid's first appearance this season, where - except for spoilers and comic book precedent - you didn't know who or what he was or what he was doing there. They forshadowed "darkness," sure, but that was really vague. And this is the same thing. Darkseid shows up, he's a cool effect, and that's it. For all we know, he was just about to ask Lionel for a match. And the only way to avoid that kind of pointlessness is for the scene to establish a point. Again, there may have been forshadowing about him bringing back Lex, but there's no direct correlation between Lionel making a misguided wish and Darkseid showing up two seconds later. If this was a comic, the strength of that panel would depend upon whether it was just a splash page or whether the character said something relevant. Also if it had been, itself, forshadowed. This is the former. It's a splash page. And splash pages don't contribute to the story.

Yes but it stabilized. That's the whole point.

That wasn't any point. It was never made. They never said that he stopped growing at an accelerated rate. They never said he's now growing at a normal rate. Or that he's stuck at that age forever. This wasn't addressed, because they threw a lightswitch and changed the subject.

She was surprised, but that doesn't mean that the use of Clark's DNA was accidental. It was just something she didn't know about until that point.

She still doesn't know who did it, or why, or when it was done. And they've made it quite clear that they aren't going to mention it again. And if I can't complain about that, why am I even here?

Taste is subjective. You felt it was crap, okay. But there were those of us who watched this and enjoyed the throw-back to Smallville of old.

I made my promises that I'd wait and see where this went. I did, and it was just as bad as I imagined. Not only did they ruin a character and a decent storyline (except for the memory transference thing), but they used it as an excuse to rip off a bunch of old episodes for more fan service instead of writing something new and relevant to the show's final season.

They're building towards that. You're not going to see Superman until the finale, i think you need to deal with that.

I didn't say anything about Superman. This season should be about Clark doing something, not about cameos by Superboy. We aren't even going to see Superman in the finale, so have fun dealing with that after the fact.

I'd say, "paid homage" and did it quite nicely, in fact.

You say "paid homage" only because you liked the episode. Same as people who liked the Matrix ripoff. But this was no different, and much worse. It's a completely redundant entry in the history of Smallville. It's frankly quite absurd for them to give us a story about the angst and conflict of a teenaged Superboy. The fact that this was a special event due to the show no longer being about that, i.e. its own premise, is why Smallville is such a miserable failure. We should never have NEEDED Superboy to show up and remind us of how Clark used to be in good, emotionally deep episodes with lots of conflict, where father figures played a major role. And even if we did, it should have been in "Homecoming" or "Luthor" or some other fantasy setting where it didn't mean Superboy was more willing to go out and fight crime than the real Clark Kent.

Ultimately, I have to judge an episode fairly, and that's based on what it presented that held any merit, original storytelling, or just plain entertainment. The fact is, I thought the only scene that came close was the fight scene. But even as I was pondering whether or not I'd have to concede that the fight was actually good just due to being there, and not being over in two seconds, I was reminded of how similar it was to the Kal/Jonathan fight. The fact that it added absolutely nothing except for a change of characters and a lack of depth is what makes it a ripoff, and worthless to me as a viewer. You can't just recreate one of the best moments of the series verbatim and expect the same praise. So, this episode didn't offer anything new or valuable. Except that it made me go out and buy a Toyota Scion! Grin YAAAAY!

Seriously though, it was insultingly repetitive, and I haven't forgotten how good the show used to be nearly enough to be impressed by a facsimile. This was just a cheap fanart of Smallville, nothing more. And the only way fanart is good is if it adds a unique style or exceeds the quality of the source material. This did neither, and instead put new, shallow characters into old situations. If THAT is what passes as a good Smallville episode these days, then you know exactly what's wrong with this show.
 
krypto-mac
Lex Vader wrote:
For seconds, i just don't see the problem with them using that stock footage.

It's become formulaic, and it serves to emphasize the things they they're not showing us. Like if we saw Clark take his glasses out of his pocket and SMASH THEM INTO DUST, then flip off the camera. Also, it makes Superman look like a boring job on a sitcom that never gets shown. You seriously don't have a problem with the fact that Clark is basically already Superman, but entirely offscreen where we never get to see it? That makes this show all about his whiny domestic drama. It makes this the Desperate Housewives of the Superman franchise. Is that what we signed up for? It's one thing if he's not fighting crime YET. It's another to say he is, but intentionally not show it. We used to revel in the scenes that were the MOST like Superman. Now we're being deprived of them. That's BS. Also, Clark hanging up his superhero costume in the living room is beyond careless.


Well i obviously can't argue that him hanging his costume up in the living room is careless.

However, on your other point....this show is about a lot of things. In the remaining episodes, we have to see:
- Clark and Lois get married.
- Clark take flight.
- Some sort of conclusion to the Superboy plot.
- Lex come back and pose some sort of threat.
- Darkseid, Desaad and Granny Goodness.
- Clark becoming Superman.

There's probably more, but that's just off the top of my head. I think they've got enough material to give us without having to bog themselves down in showing us his nightly patrols. I think until we physically see him in the costume, it's enough to know that he's out there saving people. Would i like to see it? Sure. But i also appreciate they've got what, about 5 episodes, to tie everything up with? They've got a heck of a lot to do.
I think it perhaps wouldn't have hurt to see him doing some super things in a more filler-based episode - that's where i think they have wasted opportunities. That could turn a potentially throw-away episode into a winner. Or at least some semblance of a winner.

Lex Vader wrote:
He didn't believe it for a second, he wanted proof.

Next time, maybe they'll make sure to have him say, "That's not true! That's impossible! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!" But I think he got it across well enough by not saying, "What kind of a fool do you think I am? You cannot deceive the Prince of Lies! Mwuahahahaha!"


Sometimes subtlety is the key. I think what we were shown conveyed the necessary emotions and implications well enough.

Lex Vader wrote:
if it means they get to spend more time on the Darkseid plot now, i'm not going to argue with it.

If they wanted to spend any time at all on the Darkseid plot, they wouldn't have written this episode at all. Or Fortune. Or half the episodes this season. They don't care about the Darkseid story. That's why we never got an explanation for how his minions ended up on Earth, one of them for about twenty years, when Darkseid only slipped in because of whatever Zod did on the roof. And believe me, they're not going to explain it either. This subplot is just to get people's hopes up for an exciting finale which will probably be a huge letdown whether it has a two minute fight scene or not.


I really and truly hope we're not in for another Doomsday. Doomsday was an absolute dud. Also, i don't think there's any problem with saying Granny Goodness had been on Earth for quite some time.
As for the episode structure, i would certainly like to see more action, more plot, and less filler. But realistically, you have to ask yourself - is one person's filler another person's meat? For example, i didn't think this episode was filler because it advanced the Superboy plot and gave us a hint of what's to come with Darkseid and Lex. To you though, this episode obviously was filler because you perceive that they should be focusing only on Clark and his development at this late stage. Both view points have validity, it just depends which side of the fence you fall on.

Lex Vader wrote:
Yes, she might question where he came from, anyone would. But you can't fault her for not catching on about his powers. But she did have questions, thus her's and Clark's talk in the kitchen.

You're still not listening. She just basically went, "Oh, hi," to a mysterious stranger in the barn, ignoring him as if it was a commonplace event, and the roof practically had to fall on her head before she raised an eyebrow. It's bad writing that shows they don't care about their characters as much as setting up a cheesy joke that they thought was so brilliant in the writing room.


Well in her defence, Conner wasn't the first kid to be hanging out with Clark in that barn. Maybe she should have asked some questions, but i think most would agree the scene with his desire setting off his heat vision and Clark having to divert the blast was fairly amusing, and a good throw back to when he first developed his own heat vision.

Lex Vader wrote:
Come on dude, the Helen Bryce thing was years ago now, they don't need to tie it up now with everything else that's going on.

Exactly, which is why they had no business reminding me of that loose end that would have made a much better cameo than Aquaman's girlfriend. It's also completely unnecessary to have Clark explaining their nonsense character twist with theories when he has NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. It's them glossing over the details of something that should be more important than a throwaway episode with a throwaway backstory. Yep, Lex had Clark's blood years ago. Does that explain Conner Kent? No, it does not.


So you're saying the name Helen Bryce shouldn't have come up at all? That was the only blood sample that made sense. MMH destroyed the sample at Checkmate headquarters, and i can't even honestly remember whose blood that was - just that it was alien....and poorly written.

Lex Vader wrote:
Yes, it's called writing a story. One element does often flow onto and even cause the next. That's how all stories work.

And when the event that sets everything else in motion is based on false pretense, everything else being connected by coincidence, then it's called writing a story BADLY. See, there's an important difference between having Spider-Man's black suit come out of a story, and having the suit magically appear only to facilitate a story about him and Venom. That's why the comics are awesome, the cartoon was well done, and the Spider-Man 3 movie was excrement.


Well using that example, i can see what you mean. The black suit and the subsequent development of Venom happens to be one of my favourite stories in Spider-Man history - eclipsed only by the death of Gwen Stacy and a small handful of other stories.
But the question is, if you think Tess asking Lois to go snooping was false-pretense, what would you have preferred? If they got Clark to go, he never would have gotten into any trouble, so there'd be no story. If they got anyone other than Lois to go, Lionel would have shot them on the spot. It had to be Lois to facilitate Superboy saving her and thus creating the story's impetus from there.

Lex Vader wrote:
I get what you're saying, but you can't talk factually about legalities pertaining to an impossibility, because there are no laws covering this area.

Are you intentionally not listening just because you liked this episode? I'm saying that there is no danger of Tess convincing a court that Lionel is from an alternate universe, because no one would ever believe that. And for her to think that the sheer FACT that he's from an alternate universe meant there must be some evidence PROVING that is faulty. She and Lois were acting the same way as if Lionel had committed a CRIME, which was not the case. In point of fact, all they had to do was exhume Lionel's body, but that would be too logical. Smallville has to solve everything with magic.


Actually, you have a fair point. She could have just exhumed the body - but then everybody would be wondering who the hell the dopple-ganger with identical DNA was, and where the hell he came from. Good luck squeezing that storyline into the last handful of episodes with everything else that's going on.

Lex Vader wrote:
It wasn't coincidence that there was evidence against Lionel, it was quick thinking by Tess.

Excuse me, but yes it was a bloody coincidence.


Okay, it was a little convenient, but i still wouldn't say it was a coincidence.

Lex Vader wrote:
Do we really want him sticking around when he's this freaking evil, even if he doesn't own a large corporation? Any number of people could die as a result of him being in this universe.


Which is part of the reason he's interesting to watch: because he's merciless, and he knows it.

Lex Vader wrote:
And just as they were wrong to keep Clark out of the initial problem, they were wrong to keep him out of the solution. Especially if you consider that, however misguided, Tess is essentially Clark's employee. It's just poorly executed all around, and looking like a red herring anyway since Lionel still isn't gone.


I'd say Tess is on Clark's team.....i don't know that i'd stretch it to saying she's his "employee". But yes, Clark should have been in on it the whole time, no arguments there.

Lex Vader wrote:
Mirror Lionel wants to be with his son....not Clark, his son. He wants to create an empire with him, and he'll do anything to achieve that end.

You're really buying into this nonsense, aren't you?


It's not nonsense. He thinks he made a mistake with whose side he chose in his own universe, so he's attempting to rectify that in this one.

Lex Vader wrote:
Thirdly, he comes from a universe where he basically owns everything, and as I've already stated, it makes little to no sense for him to want to start from scratch in another universe. Nobody would do that. President Obama wouldn't resign just so he could have the thrill of running for office again. Nor would he skip out on his duties and go to an alternate universe just because he didn't happen to be President there.


Fair call. The only thing i would go back to is that he wants to fix his mistakes with his son, and perhaps that outranks everything else in importance to him, which is why he is willing to "start from scratch". Plus it's not exactly like he can go back, Clark destroyed the mirror box. Lionel has no choice but to make do in his present environment.

Lex Vader wrote:
Okay, so where would you have had him take her?

It's not my job to come up with ideas for this show. But sudden slaughterhouses are laugh-out-loud ridiculous in a show like this that only has a few sets. It stands out like a sore thumb wearing a Superman cape and playing "Poker Face" on a kazoo. This is 1940's badguy shtick and it doesn't fit here at all. For the record, I would have had him tie Lois to the railroad tracks. We know they have the location! And it would be much less silly. He'd need to grow a long moustache, but he probably has a magic artifact that can do that.


Oh dude, train tracks? That is soooo cliche! Lol. But i take your point.

Lex Vader wrote:
For once, we have a brutal uncompromising villain.

If I want to watch a cartoon, I'll watch one. I don't need to see them desecrate the grave of a great character by making him sub-dimensional with no rational motivation and no backstory. The aliens have a little more leg room in this regard, but they still have to have a solid foundation for the way they act. This is a hell of a lot worse than Zod and his army, because at least they could be considered desperate and wayward. Lionel intentionally came to our world to go from riches to rags, and that just goes against basic animal survival instincts, let alone human logic.


Lionel was sucked into "our world" when Clark returned his own universe. Lionel can't go back. He has no choice but to make do. Perhaps what would make more sense is if he was trying to find a way to go back to his own universe and take Lex with him so they could rule his already established empire? Who knows, that might even be where this is going, it might even be how this plot is resolved. We'll have to wait and see.

Lex Vader wrote:
Maybe a fair point, but they also have a pretty limited number of sets and an even tighter budget.

Exactly why there are certain things that they shouldn't write.

The point being that, even in MOST episodes, a place of kidnapping is usually established in the story beforehand with some amount of logic. With Metallo, we saw that he lived in that boiler room basement. Here, suddenly Lionel is at a slaughterhouse getting DNA results from a butcher. WHAT!?? If that's due to a deleted scene, the omission makes this look random and weird. Mac, if they had SAID they needed a remote place and explained how they acquired it, I would only be complaining half as much. But they were lazy, again, and it always shows. In neon.


I think you'd be complaining just as much no matter what, lol. I understand your point, i just don't see it as a big issue. I don't need to see Lionel acquiring obscure properties that he can take hostages to. I'm happy enough seeing them for the first time when he takes people there and having it established at that point that he owns it.

Lex Vader wrote:
why couldn't he have reversed finger prints? It could have done with a little setting up, granted. ....but it's really not that huge a problem.

I'm not going to explain deus ex machina to you, because I know you understand it. And to avoid that, yes it is important to set things up, no matter in how small a detail. There's no REASON for them to have not set up even a hint of this convenient backwards fingerprint fact either earlier in the episode or some other week. It would still probably be a dumb copout, but it would be less of one.


Thinking about it though, is it really that much of a deal breaker? Perhaps they could have had him fail a fingerprint scan to get into a facility, or slip up on some documentation somewhere along the way, and in the past they would have done this. But i'm honestly well past expecting that sort of attention to detail from these writers, as i would think you would be too.

Lex Vader wrote:
Actually, having absolutely no idea where something is headed is the entire point of a cliff hanger.

But you are given a brief sense of danger to keep you invested between the two stories. A cliffhanger is not just someone turning blue and growing a monkey tail and leaving you to wonder why on Earth that would happen. I'm not saying this wasn't a cliffhanger. I'm saying it was a very bad one. All they had to do was have Darkseid say something like, "I'm going to turn your head into ground beef and use your limbs as toothpicks." Boom, cliffhanger material.


But aren't you now wondering what the heck Darkseid was doing there? And how it's going to tie into Lex? And if Lex is dead and Darkseid is bringing him back, what's he going to want from Lionel in exchange? I don't think it was meant to be a cliff-hanger of danger and intrigue, more of just pure intrigue.

Lex Vader wrote:
Yes but it stabilized. That's the whole point.

That wasn't any point. It was never made. They never said that he stopped growing at an accelerated rate. They never said he's now growing at a normal rate. Or that he's stuck at that age forever. This wasn't addressed, because they threw a lightswitch and changed the subject.


Actually i think you have a fair point, that issue could have done with a little bit of expansion.

Lex Vader wrote:
She was surprised, but that doesn't mean that the use of Clark's DNA was accidental. It was just something she didn't know about until that point.

She still doesn't know who did it, or why, or when it was done. And they've made it quite clear that they aren't going to mention it again. And if I can't complain about that, why am I even here?


One of Lex's scientists did it obviously, as for your other points, i haven't a clue....and we're not likely to get any explanation either. Don't hold your breath waiting for one.

Lex Vader wrote:
Taste is subjective. You felt it was crap, okay. But there were those of us who watched this and enjoyed the throw-back to Smallville of old.

I made my promises that I'd wait and see where this went. I did, and it was just as bad as I imagined. Not only did they ruin a character and a decent storyline (except for the memory transference thing), but they used it as an excuse to rip off a bunch of old episodes for more fan service instead of writing something new and relevant to the show's final season.


You never wait and see where something is going, lol. You call every episode crap irregardless of any other mitigating factors. Not that i always disagree with you. This season has had some terrible episodes, i just don't think this was one of them.

Lex Vader wrote:
They're building towards that. You're not going to see Superman until the finale, i think you need to deal with that.

I didn't say anything about Superman. This season should be about Clark doing something, not about cameos by Superboy. We aren't even going to see Superman in the finale, so have fun dealing with that after the fact.


I think we have to see Superman in the finale or this series is going to be the most epic failure in the history of television. A show about a young man's journey to becoming Superman....without the Superman pay-off at the end? They couldn't possibly do that.

Lex Vader wrote:
I'd say, "paid homage" and did it quite nicely, in fact.

You say "paid homage" only because you liked the episode. Same as people who liked the Matrix ripoff. But this was no different, and much worse.


Man, that's a big call. The Matrix rip-off was all different kinds of terrible, i really think they'd have to go a long way to do worse than it. I understand that you think this was just a hollow rip-off of earlier greatness, but i tend to think it was just a nice homage with the interesting twist of Clark being in the Fatherly role, which is a good thing to see coming into him finally being Superman.

Lex Vader wrote:
Ultimately, I have to judge an episode fairly, and that's based on what it presented that held any merit, original storytelling, or just plain entertainment.


When was the last time you found anything Smallville did to be good?

Lex Vader wrote:
Seriously though, it was insultingly repetitive, and I haven't forgotten how good the show used to be nearly enough to be impressed by a facsimile. This was just a cheap fanart of Smallville, nothing more.


In your opinion, lol. You might find this hard to believe, but a lot of people did enjoy the episode for what it was.

Edited by krypto-mac on 11/03/2011 02:21


To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
Johnjones
Off topic, but is this you? I'm assuming so, and two thumbs way up if so!

http://www.youtub...lx0DpQ_P9w
"Future events such as these, will effect you in the future."

-Plan 9 From Outer Space-
 
Lex Vader
However, on your other point....this show is about a lot of things.

Again, I'm not saying they should show him patrolling, as you seem to be stuck on the fact that there's not much time left. Obviously it's far too late to make a good show now. But they need to stop insulting us by constantly referencing the patrols that they have no intention of ever showing. It makes the show WORSE.

Sometimes subtlety is the key. I think what we were shown conveyed the necessary emotions and implications well enough.

Yes, it showed that he was hurted by what the mean lady said. And a supremely clichéd villain wouldn't just say "you're lying," he'd believe it without a single doubt, and he'd just turn around and shoot her in the face. After all, he FOUND Alexander by doing NOTHING. Pure luck brought Conner to the mansion. So Tess didn't even need to be kept alive. And if Lionel would shoot Lois just for snooping, why not shoot his alter-daughter for legitimately standing in his way? That's some inconsistent evil, and it's why that kind of childish writing contradicts itself in a show that has to stick to the status quo.

I really and truly hope we're not in for another Doomsday.

Even if they have a ten minute fight scene with a wrestler in a costume in a new location, it still will be a superficial scene with no emotional depth, and we still won't get to see the epic finale of our dreams. Because just having a fight scene doesn't make something epic. It's why nobody cares about Steven Seagal movies.

Also, i don't think there's any problem with saying Granny Goodness had been on Earth for quite some time.

There is a problem with saying that. It's thoughtless and it doesn't make sense. Darkseid only showed up on Earth due to random chance. So why were his minions already here for years? He had no way of getting to Earth without Clark opening a portal. So why would they be preparing an army for him on Earth? And how could they have gotten here? Storytelling doesn't work when you try to tie things into random events and then say there was a plan. I mean, was Darkseid sitting at his desk on Apokolips and then the "dumbass opened a portal" alarm went off and he abandoned his entire schedule to go to Earth at an unplanned time? They are not going to explain any of this.

For example, i didn't think this episode was filler because it advanced the Superboy plot and gave us a hint of what's to come with Darkseid and Lex.

For one thing, there was no Superboy plot to advance. They introduced the whole concept in 90 seconds in a previous episode, based on nothing. So it could have been entirely self-contained, as opposed to mostly. That is not plot advancement, it's a one-off. Same goes for Darkseid. His appearance in this episode lasted a few seconds and was not a result of anything in the plot. That also could have been tacked onto whatever Darkseid episode they're planning on doing next. And that part of the episode doesn't justify the entire episode. I'd say you're grasping.

So you're saying the name Helen Bryce shouldn't have come up at all? That was the only blood sample that made sense.

No, it didn't make sense. "Lex must have kept a sample"? Okay, how about "Checkmate must have kept a sample"? Also, I think you're forgetting Rabid, where Clark's DNA rained down on the entire city, and I seem to recall Tess saying that she destroyed a sample that was taken around this time. The point is, they can reference their own sh*tty writing and not bring forgotten plot threads into it. Clark didn't know what the hell he was talking about. He was just making wild assumptions, and we don't even know if he was right. There was no reason for that dialogue except to keep us from asking any more questions about it.

If they got Clark to go, he never would have gotten into any trouble, so there'd be no story.

Really? Clark goes snopping, Lionel hits him with Kryptonite, and then Conner has to decide where his loyalties lie. And if I remembered what we were talking about, I'd have an even better example.

She could have just exhumed the body - but then everybody would be wondering who the hell the dopple-ganger with identical DNA was, and where the hell he came from.

And God forbid anybody question why Lionel is still alive. We already addressed the fact that faking your death IS illegal, and they've never brought it up. This is why I hate fan service of this nature. Besides, nobody questioned where the doppelganger with reverse fingerprints came from. What's the difference?

He thinks he made a mistake with whose side he chose in his own universe, so he's attempting to rectify that in this one.

Haha. Wow, really? Having a superpowered son is the only thing that enabled him to rule with an iron fist. We saw where he gets with a bald kid that he never loved. And all he has to do is research his history a little bit to see that even in THIS universe, he couldn't get along with Lex. There is no, "Join me and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son." If he's ruthless, he should also be smart, and if he's smart, he'd see this. Granted, Conner is more impressionable, but I don't think it's realistic for someone like Lionel to make the same mistake three times. You don't get far in life by making mistakes. So even if he DID state his motivation, which he hasn't, I still wouldn't buy it. Actions have to come from character. Characters can't come from actions. Otherwise, Han Solo really is a cold-blooded murdered for shooting Greedo, and Indiana Jones is a murderer for shooting that Arab guy.

I checked "Luthor" again, and he even says that he expects a real Luthor to kill him, Vader-style. So why would he want to raise another one to become the kind of person who'd kill him, just like Lex did in this universe? He'd have to go a long way to explain that logic.

The only thing i would go back to is that he wants to fix his mistakes with his son, and perhaps that outranks everything else in importance to him, which is why he is willing to "start from scratch".

If he said that, you'd have an argument. John Glover could make anything believable. But all we saw was him show up here on a whim for a weak cliffhanger, and then decide to regain LuthorCorp, and then he tried to woo Conner to the dark side. All unconnected. All spontaneous. And again, if he yells, "Woo, I'm spontaneous!" and sets his hand on fire, at least that would set some precedent for his character. But apart from being "evil," he's still being used for whatever the writers want, regardless of reason, just like Tess. We shouldn't even be saying "perhaps." We should already know his thoughts on what he's doing.

Lionel was sucked into "our world" when Clark returned his own universe.

Well, that's a neat fan fiction, but they never showed OR told us how and why he came over. The fact is, mirror Lionel didn't know anything about Earth 1, let alone whether there was another Lex or Tess. If they want to show him taking advantage of being stuck on this Earth, they have to show it OR say it. One's better than the other, but you can't just neglect them both. In point of fact, his grudge against Clark Luthor is misguided since he they didn't talk to each other at all during "Luthor." He completely misconstrued the intentions of Clark and mirror Tess, and whether the evil Clark was actually conspiring against him is irrelevant since Lionel had no way of knowing that. The bottom line is that villains HAVE to have a clear motivation, even more than heroes do. And this has all been extremely circumstantial and opportunistic, without even stating that it's opportunistic. He did say Clark opening a portal gave him a second chance to provide for his family, but we know he's a liar, so it's hard to take that at face value. Especially when it brings him to, "Come on, son! Let your evil make you STRONNNNGER!" It's hard to reconcile someone being simeltaneously evil and also caring about his family. That's the subtext of the old Lionel who was nuanced, but this is just so two-dimensional that it's paradoxical and confusing. Again, just like Tess.

I'm happy enough seeing them for the first time when he takes people there and having it established at that point that he owns it.

They didn't even establish that he owned the slaughterhouse. Even by your own admission, it's not good enough. It compounds the arbitrary nature of it when Lois asks, "Why'd you bring me to a slaughterhouse? To scare me?" and Lionel says, "No, Mr. Bond, to SHOOT you!" Huh? I mean... if you brought her to a SHOOTING RANGE, that would be one thing. If he'd SAID, "I'm going to slaughter you!" I'd give him points for that too. But... it's just lazy and random the way they did it. At least make a pun to excuse your set design.

But i'm honestly well past expecting that sort of attention to detail from these writers

Oh okay. Just because it's the last season and I know how much the writers suck doesn't mean I have to pat them on the head like they're in the special class. Mostly because, you know, they're not. They're still professional writers, no matter what season it is. And I don't believe the bad writing comes from anything but laziness.

But aren't you now wondering what the heck Darkseid was doing there?

Well, them explaining how Darkseid got to the roof didn't make the scene any more valid in the context of the premiere. It still had no substance to it at that point in time. It was just eye candy. And then him turning into crows for no reason just made it more pointless. Knowing that they're not likely to continue that scene directly and have Darkseid suddenly start talking and explain what he wants from Lionel, I'm not inclined to see this as a necessary setup. Especially since they could, again, move the whole scene to another episode. Besides, the scene itself didn't have any setup. Everything is supposed to come out of what the characters are doing. And so what has Darkseid been doing? Dunno! If this were a cartoon, I'm sure we would have seen Darkseid sitting around, saying, "My plans require a ruthless guy who doesn't like to shave." So, they can't even write as well as a cartoon? Why? Do cartoon writers really get paid that much more? Seriously, with all the forshadowing this season, you'd think some of it would be relevant to their story.

This season has had some terrible episodes, i just don't think this was one of them.

It wasn't terrible for the exact same reasons. It was terrible because despite being full of fan service and tangentially related to Clark, it didn't add anything relevant. It was redundant "homages" used to get rid of a character just because they can now explain Lex coming back with magic beans instead of what they were already writing. I don't care for that kind of "entertainment." It's the same reason I don't watch Young Justice. So, this episode was virtually worthless to me. It had the same entertainment value as Collateral. That's "cool," but I've seen it before, done better. And as far as fan service, at least Homecoming showed us actual Superman stuff, rather than giving us a mock Superboy who has nowhere to live while he goes to school and no permanent guardians. I mean if Clark is raising his clone now, I'm out. That would be beyond stupid.

but i tend to think it was just a nice homage with the interesting twist of Clark being in the Fatherly role, which is a good thing to see coming into him finally being Superman.

He's not supposed to be in a fatherly role. First of all, he's 23. And he's barely a man on this show. Secondly, it's his clone. That's creepy. Thirdly, this is the theme that ruined Superman Returns. Superman's not a dad, period. He's a role model, not a father figure. And fourthly, after he says, "Can't we be brothers instead??" it misses its own point. So, I don't see the value of it. It wasn't necessary. They already had the Wonder Twins and the Torch Online kids worshipping him and Chloe. If they want to show him as a role model, there are better, less obvious ways of doing it. This is as heavy handed as having a time traveller tell him exactly what's wrong with his character and how he needs to change to become Superman. "Oh, I'll just tell my clone what it means to be myself. Hang on, let me just loosen this rope and drop the 16-ton anvil of subtext on the audience." OH, I GET IT! Thanks for having faith in my intelligence, Smallville! :B

When was the last time you found anything Smallville did to be good?

When's the last time they did anything good? I throw out my old calendars.

I know you LIKED the homage, but it says a lot when the only good episode in a season STILL has to be a ripoff of something.
 
krypto-mac
Lex Vader wrote:
However, on your other point....this show is about a lot of things.

Again, I'm not saying they should show him patrolling, as you seem to be stuck on the fact that there's not much time left. Obviously it's far too late to make a good show now. But they need to stop insulting us by constantly referencing the patrols that they have no intention of ever showing. It makes the show WORSE.


I can see your point there. I don't agree that it makes the show worse, but i know where you're coming from now.

Lex Vader wrote:
Sometimes subtlety is the key. I think what we were shown conveyed the necessary emotions and implications well enough.

Yes, it showed that he was hurted by what the mean lady said. And a supremely clichéd villain wouldn't just say "you're lying," he'd believe it without a single doubt, and he'd just turn around and shoot her in the face. After all, he FOUND Alexander by doing NOTHING. Pure luck brought Conner to the mansion. So Tess didn't even need to be kept alive. And if Lionel would shoot Lois just for snooping, why not shoot his alter-daughter for legitimately standing in his way? That's some inconsistent evil, and it's why that kind of childish writing contradicts itself in a show that has to stick to the status quo.


Man you need to make up your mind. First you're saying he's too evil, now you're saying he's not evil enough because he didn't just shoot Tess. Talk about inconsistencies, lol. I'm not sure i disagree with your take on it, but you're a bit all over the radar on this one.

Lex Vader wrote:
I really and truly hope we're not in for another Doomsday.

Even if they have a ten minute fight scene with a wrestler in a costume in a new location, it still will be a superficial scene with no emotional depth, and we still won't get to see the epic finale of our dreams. Because just having a fight scene doesn't make something epic. It's why nobody cares about Steven Seagal movies.


Lol, i'm sure somebody cares about Steven Seagal movies - though not me. You never know though, they might really build on the Darkseid angle and make us really care about the fight. I hope they don't think we're going to like it just because of who's involved though, because otherwise you're right - it will have no emotional depth.

Lex Vader wrote:
Also, i don't think there's any problem with saying Granny Goodness had been on Earth for quite some time.

Darkseid only showed up on Earth due to random chance. So why were his minions already here for years? He had no way of getting to Earth without Clark opening a portal. So why would they be preparing an army for him on Earth? And how could they have gotten here? Storytelling doesn't work when you try to tie things into random events and then say there was a plan.


Well they obviously found a way here - like a boom tube for instance. We even had references from Waller and Martha last season talking about the "coming apocalypse/apokolips", and that was before Clark opened the portal on the roof. In fact, didn't they try and connect Darkseid's influence with past atrocities in human history? I think they're trying to make it sound like he's been at work on Earth for quite some time.

Lex Vader wrote:
I mean, was Darkseid sitting at his desk on Apokolips and then the "dumbass opened a portal" alarm went off and he abandoned his entire schedule to go to Earth at an unplanned time? They are not going to explain any of this.


Lol, you do have a unique take on things. I had a good laugh at this.

Lex Vader wrote:
I'd say you're grasping.


You may say so, but i still say it was an enjoyable episode.

Lex Vader wrote:
So you're saying the name Helen Bryce shouldn't have come up at all? That was the only blood sample that made sense.

No, it didn't make sense. "Lex must have kept a sample"? Okay, how about "Checkmate must have kept a sample"? Also, I think you're forgetting Rabid, where Clark's DNA rained down on the entire city, and I seem to recall Tess saying that she destroyed a sample that was taken around this time. The point is, they can reference their own sh*tty writing and not bring forgotten plot threads into it. Clark didn't know what the hell he was talking about. He was just making wild assumptions, and we don't even know if he was right. There was no reason for that dialogue except to keep us from asking any more questions about it.


You sort of asked and answered your own question. Tess destroyed the sample from Rabid. MMH destroyed the sample from Checkmate. The Helen Bryce sample was actually good referencing.

Lex Vader wrote:
If they got Clark to go, he never would have gotten into any trouble, so there'd be no story.

Really? Clark goes snopping, Lionel hits him with Kryptonite, and then Conner has to decide where his loyalties lie.


And you don't think that's remotely cliched at all?

Lex Vader wrote:
She could have just exhumed the body - but then everybody would be wondering who the hell the dopple-ganger with identical DNA was, and where the hell he came from.

And God forbid anybody question why Lionel is still alive. We already addressed the fact that faking your death IS illegal, and they've never brought it up. This is why I hate fan service of this nature. Besides, nobody questioned where the doppelganger with reverse fingerprints came from. What's the difference?


See, now you actually raise an interesting point. What Tess should have done is tried to prove the fake/alter universe Lionel was the real Lionel, and have him put in jail for faking his death. That would have made perfect sense and would have been consistent with legalities.

Lex Vader wrote:
He thinks he made a mistake with whose side he chose in his own universe, so he's attempting to rectify that in this one.

Haha. Wow, really? Having a superpowered son is the only thing that enabled him to rule with an iron fist. We saw where he gets with a bald kid that he never loved.


Yes, but perhaps he doesn't want to rule with someone that he has to play second fiddle to. With Ultra Clark, he was never really in power because UC could crush him at any time he wanted to. Perhaps he wanted to be top dog for once.

Lex Vader wrote:
I checked "Luthor" again, and he even says that he expects a real Luthor to kill him, Vader-style. So why would he want to raise another one to become the kind of person who'd kill him, just like Lex did in this universe? He'd have to go a long way to explain that logic.


Fair call.

Lex Vader wrote:
The only thing i would go back to is that he wants to fix his mistakes with his son, and perhaps that outranks everything else in importance to him, which is why he is willing to "start from scratch".

If he said that, you'd have an argument. John Glover could make anything believable. But all we saw was him show up here on a whim for a weak cliffhanger, and then decide to regain LuthorCorp, and then he tried to woo Conner to the dark side. All unconnected. All spontaneous. And again, if he yells, "Woo, I'm spontaneous!" and sets his hand on fire, at least that would set some precedent for his character. But apart from being "evil," he's still being used for whatever the writers want, regardless of reason, just like Tess. We shouldn't even be saying "perhaps." We should already know his thoughts on what he's doing.


Not everything needs to be said to be conclusive. I drew from the presented story that he wanted to fix his mistakes with his son. I don't need to physically hear him say the words to know it. Things don't have to be spoken to be a truism, and things that remain unspoken aren't necessarily any less true.
Though again, i got a good laugh at your spontaneity joke. Smile

Lex Vader wrote:
Lionel was sucked into "our world" when Clark returned his own universe.

Well, that's a neat fan fiction, but they never showed OR told us how and why he came over. The fact is, mirror Lionel didn't know anything about Earth 1, let alone whether there was another Lex or Tess. If they want to show him taking advantage of being stuck on this Earth, they have to show it OR say it. One's better than the other, but you can't just neglect them both.....He did say Clark opening a portal gave him a second chance to provide for his family, but we know he's a liar, so it's hard to take that at face value.


See, i'd forgotten he actually said it. But i'd say they have shown him taking advantage of being here by regaining the old Lionel's life, and if he's said he wants to provide for his family, what more do you want? He wants to rule with his son like he never did in his own world. That's a pretty clear motivation.

Lex Vader wrote:
I'm happy enough seeing them for the first time when he takes people there and having it established at that point that he owns it.

They didn't even establish that he owned the slaughterhouse. Even by your own admission, it's not good enough.


Fair call.

Lex Vader wrote:
But i'm honestly well past expecting that sort of attention to detail from these writers

Oh okay. Just because it's the last season and I know how much the writers suck doesn't mean I have to pat them on the head like they're in the special class. Mostly because, you know, they're not. They're still professional writers, no matter what season it is. And I don't believe the bad writing comes from anything but laziness.


I don't think the bad writing comes from laziness. I don't think anybody intentionally sits down and writes crap like, "Rabid" or "Harvest". I'm sure they must think that what they're doing is great. At least in those two cases (and many others), i'd beg to differ though. I'd say a lot of things slip through editing that never would have cut it in the first few seasons.

Lex Vader wrote:
But aren't you now wondering what the heck Darkseid was doing there?

If this were a cartoon, I'm sure we would have seen Darkseid sitting around, saying, "My plans require a ruthless guy who doesn't like to shave." So, they can't even write as well as a cartoon? Why? Do cartoon writers really get paid that much more? Seriously, with all the forshadowing this season, you'd think some of it would be relevant to their story.


I think you're writing the scene off without thinking about what it showed. Lionel is at the foot of Lex's grave begging for his return, and then Darkseid materializes in front of him. Obviously some sort of faustian pact is going to be made and Lex is going to be brought back. Darkseid is all about darkness and unbridled evil, and working through people who have a dark nature - and it's been shown that this Lionel is brutally evil, so his appearing there did make sense. It would make less sense and be more inconsistent if Darkseid didn't involve himself with Lionel somehow. You just have to give it a little thought instead of discounting it immediately. I'm curious about what Lionel is going to have to give in return.

Lex Vader wrote:
This season has had some terrible episodes, i just don't think this was one of them.

It wasn't terrible for the exact same reasons. It was terrible because despite being full of fan service and tangentially related to Clark, it didn't add anything relevant.


Except for Superboy, Tess regaining Luthor Corp, and the ending with Darkseid.

Lex Vader wrote:
but i tend to think it was just a nice homage with the interesting twist of Clark being in the Fatherly role, which is a good thing to see coming into him finally being Superman.

He's not supposed to be in a fatherly role.....He's a role model, not a father figure.


Six of one.

Lex Vader wrote:
And fourthly, after he says, "Can't we be brothers instead??" it misses its own point.


A brother can still be a role model. In fact, if anything that should have fixed the issue for you, if you don't like seeing Clark in a fatherly role - though i didn't mind it.

Lex Vader wrote:
When was the last time you found anything Smallville did to be good?

When's the last time they did anything good? I throw out my old calendars.


This episode and "Homecoming", come to mind.

Lex Vader wrote:
I know you LIKED the homage, but it says a lot when the only good episode in a season STILL has to be a ripoff of something.


Where i see homage, you see rip-off. It just depends on your view point.

Incidentally, if that clip John posted was you - which i presume to be the case, then that's quite funny stuff.

Edited by krypto-mac on 13/03/2011 01:51


To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
Lex Vader
First you're saying he's too evil, now you're saying he's not evil enough

I don't make the inconsistencies, I just target them! He's drawn as very two-dimensionally evil, for evil's sake I guess. And they did finally back that up by having him try to shoot Lois in the face. But then once they say he's capable of things like that, it looks a bit weak to let Tess live for no particular reason. The character just doesn't work.

You never know though, they might really build on the Darkseid angle and make us really care about the fight.

Even if they do, it will be WAY too late in the game for it to work on me. I have to assume they'll have him possessing Lionel and speaking through him, or somebody else. If they don't, it won't work at all. He'll be another cartoon. But if they do, it won't work because of how they had him being silent for sixteen weeks. I guess he's just the anti-Zod. Instead of talking too much, he doesn't speak at all. And thus, is not a character.

In fact, didn't they try and connect Darkseid's influence with past atrocities in human history?

I'm laughing behind my tears! Yes, they did shoehorn that in there, vaguely. They sure do love their shoehorn.

I think they're trying to make it sound like he's been at work on Earth for quite some time.

Which begs the question, how is that possible when they implied the only way he could get to Earth is through a rip in the universe? If there are OTHER ways he can get here, then that was totally arbitrary!

Tess destroyed the sample from Rabid. MMH destroyed the sample from Checkmate. The Helen Bryce sample was actually good referencing.

No it wasn't, because they retconned it! If they're going to rewrite it so that a past sample of Clark's blood had part of it SAVED before it was destroyed, why not one of the two more recent ones that were written by the same writing staff and that the audience could remember?

And you don't think that's remotely cliched at all?

As opposed to Lois snooping without telling anyone and getting kidnapped while Clark stays at home and does other things? The alternative is not as clichéd for this show, no.

What Tess should have done is tried to prove the fake/alter universe Lionel was the real Lionel, and have him put in jail for faking his death.

She wouldn't even need to, since he already came back and said, "I faked my death! J/K!"

With Ultra Clark, he was never really in power because UC could crush him at any time he wanted to.

Unfortunately, when he can keep a pocket full of kryptonite, that complaint doesn't really hold much water.

I drew from the presented story that he wanted to fix his mistakes with his son. I don't need to physically hear him say the words to know it.

I think it comes across as shallow and lazy. This is a cheap show. 90% of it comes from talking. You don't throw away words in favor of subtext in a show like this. All they ever used to really have was people talking about their feelings. Now, instead, we just get blatant references to comics. Well, I'm not saying I prefer when CHLOE or LANA or LOIS were the ones giving advice, but somehow the show looks cheaper when all it does it use gimmicks and ratings stunts. Dialogue might not get anything done, but it used to make the show seem more genuine.

He wants to rule with his son like he never did in his own world. That's a pretty clear motivation.

It's a clear motivation when you write it down in a fan forum, but they really need to have some dialogue on the show that isn't just vague threats or pop culture references. I don't want to watch a James Bond movie and wonder what the villain's plan is when all he does is giggle and wink. I want to hear him say he's going to blow up the moon. That way I don't have to waste energy wondering what he's thinking. Subtext is for character psychology, not for plot elements.

I don't think anybody intentionally sits down and writes crap like, "Rabid" or "Harvest". I'm sure they must think that what they're doing is great.

Wowwww, I really hope that's not the case. I'd like to think they just enjoy getting away with murder. They're doing a dumb show for dumb teens that they don't respect based on a dumb comic book for dumb kids, and on a dumb network that most people have never watched. So they can come up with a "great" idea that fits into the tiny little box of their formula, which only uses four sets and no locations, and only some dumb fans are going to complain that it wasn't very good. But there's no way any of these people are really trying to write the best show they possibly can, despite the fact that a lot of them will never again work on something with such a fanbase or such potential. And that's why they belong in the Phantom Zone. They write this show like it was a spinoff of Gossip Girl.

Darkseid is all about darkness and unbridled evil, and working through people who have a dark nature - and it's been shown that this Lionel is brutally evil, so his appearing there did make sense.

If they had really established Darkseid in a solid way instead of having his minions cackling and threatening world domination despite there being no higher stakes now than at any other point in the show, then his appearing to Lionel would make sense from a thematic standpoint. But even then, there's no logistic explanation for how he heard Lionel and appeared so quickly, nor has there been anything established about Darkseid being able to bring people back from the dead. That's a lot of holes for a very simple concept.

Now I just hope Clark makes a pact with Darkseid to save Martha's life by taking away his marriage to Lois! That would be awesome!

Except for Superboy, Tess regaining Luthor Corp, and the ending with Darkseid.

Superboy isn't relevant to Smallville. It's a slap in the face. And Tess regaining LuthorCorp isn't relevant to anything. She hasn't done anything with the company all season. It would make a LOT more sense for Lionel to keep control, because then when Lex comes back, he'd still be the rightful heir. I'm not sure why they'd need to complicate it by forcing him to wrest it from Tess. In fact, why is she still alive? She's not even a character from the comics.

This episode and "Homecoming", come to mind.

Homecoming was TERRIBLE.
 
krypto-mac
Lex Vader wrote:
First you're saying he's too evil, now you're saying he's not evil enough

I don't make the inconsistencies, I just target them! He's drawn as very two-dimensionally evil, for evil's sake I guess. And they did finally back that up by having him try to shoot Lois in the face. But then once they say he's capable of things like that, it looks a bit weak to let Tess live for no particular reason. The character just doesn't work.


Tess is pretty high profile, perhaps he didn't want the heat that would come with her disappearance? Plus how would he make her disappear in the middle of the CBD right next to the Daily Planet? It's all logistics.

Lex Vader wrote:
You never know though, they might really build on the Darkseid angle and make us really care about the fight.

Even if they do, it will be WAY too late in the game for it to work on me. I have to assume they'll have him possessing Lionel and speaking through him, or somebody else. If they don't, it won't work at all. He'll be another cartoon. But if they do, it won't work because of how they had him being silent for sixteen weeks. I guess he's just the anti-Zod. Instead of talking too much, he doesn't speak at all. And thus, is not a character.


I guess they just can't win with you. But i really hope he doesn't possess Lionel or speak through him. I want to actually see Darkseid, not just another possession. I won't mind his silence as long they make his presence count. I mainly just don't want a repeat of "Doomsday". That was a total dud.

Lex Vader wrote:
In fact, didn't they try and connect Darkseid's influence with past atrocities in human history?

I'm laughing behind my tears! Yes, they did shoehorn that in there, vaguely. They sure do love their shoehorn.


Yeah i must admit, that was a little bit lazy by the writer's.

Lex Vader wrote:
I think they're trying to make it sound like he's been at work on Earth for quite some time.

Which begs the question, how is that possible when they implied the only way he could get to Earth is through a rip in the universe? If there are OTHER ways he can get here, then that was totally arbitrary!


Boom tube?

Lex Vader wrote:
Tess destroyed the sample from Rabid. MMH destroyed the sample from Checkmate. The Helen Bryce sample was actually good referencing.

No it wasn't, because they retconned it! If they're going to rewrite it so that a past sample of Clark's blood had part of it SAVED before it was destroyed, why not one of the two more recent ones that were written by the same writing staff and that the audience could remember?


I remember the Helen Bryce storyline. You remember it. Probably a lot of people remember it. Are you saying they should pander to the new generation of teenage girls who just tune in to perve on the guys and reference something that has happened since they started watching? I like that they gave a shout-out to us more long-time viewers.

Lex Vader wrote:
And you don't think that's remotely cliched at all?

As opposed to Lois snooping without telling anyone and getting kidnapped while Clark stays at home and does other things? The alternative is not as clichéd for this show, no.


Lois is always getting herself into trouble, but yes, she should have told Clark what she was doing.

Lex Vader wrote:
What Tess should have done is tried to prove the fake/alter universe Lionel was the real Lionel, and have him put in jail for faking his death.

She wouldn't even need to, since he already came back and said, "I faked my death! J/K!"


Fair point.

Lex Vader wrote:
With Ultra Clark, he was never really in power because UC could crush him at any time he wanted to.

Unfortunately, when he can keep a pocket full of kryptonite, that complaint doesn't really hold much water.


Yeah i guess, but he's gotta sleep some time. UC could just wait until then to strike. Lionel would be stupid if he didn't hold some fear of him.

Lex Vader wrote:
I drew from the presented story that he wanted to fix his mistakes with his son. I don't need to physically hear him say the words to know it.

I think it comes across as shallow and lazy. This is a cheap show. 90% of it comes from talking. You don't throw away words in favor of subtext in a show like this. All they ever used to really have was people talking about their feelings. Now, instead, we just get blatant references to comics. Well, I'm not saying I prefer when CHLOE or LANA or LOIS were the ones giving advice, but somehow the show looks cheaper when all it does it use gimmicks and ratings stunts. Dialogue might not get anything done, but it used to make the show seem more genuine.


So you don't want subtlety in the writing? You don't want to have to read into anything? You want everything to be laid out and spoken clearly, making everything about as two dimensional as it gets? I agree there are some times when dialogue is needed, but i don't mind them trying to present information through actions, facial expressions, etc. I appreciate the effort.

Lex Vader wrote:
He wants to rule with his son like he never did in his own world. That's a pretty clear motivation.

It's a clear motivation when you write it down in a fan forum, but they really need to have some dialogue on the show that isn't just vague threats or pop culture references. I don't want to watch a James Bond movie and wonder what the villain's plan is when all he does is giggle and wink. I want to hear him say he's going to blow up the moon. That way I don't have to waste energy wondering what he's thinking. Subtext is for character psychology, not for plot elements.


How much more obvious would you like him to make it? From the moment he entered this world he went out to reclaim his empire, and seek out his son, all the while making it very clear that he wanted Lex by his side. He even said it at the end of this episode. It's been made clear.

Lex Vader wrote:
I don't think anybody intentionally sits down and writes crap like, "Rabid" or "Harvest". I'm sure they must think that what they're doing is great.

Wowwww, I really hope that's not the case. I'd like to think they just enjoy getting away with murder.


I really don't think they're being deliberately lazy. I think they try to do their best, but just often fail epically. But sometimes we do get the occasional nugget of gold. Sure, they aren't as frequently occurring as they used to be, but they're still great when we get them.

Lex Vader wrote:
Darkseid is all about darkness and unbridled evil, and working through people who have a dark nature - and it's been shown that this Lionel is brutally evil, so his appearing there did make sense.

If they had really established Darkseid in a solid way instead of having his minions cackling and threatening world domination despite there being no higher stakes now than at any other point in the show, then his appearing to Lionel would make sense from a thematic standpoint. But even then, there's no logistic explanation for how he heard Lionel and appeared so quickly, nor has there been anything established about Darkseid being able to bring people back from the dead. That's a lot of holes for a very simple concept.


Well it's been established that he works through people who are clouded by darkness, so there's no plot hole there. The other holes....well, we'll have to wait and see. That's why it was a cliff hanger. We're left wondering where it's going and how it happened.

Lex Vader wrote:
Except for Superboy, Tess regaining Luthor Corp, and the ending with Darkseid.

Superboy isn't relevant to Smallville. It's a slap in the face.


According to you. A lot of people would beg to differ.

Lex Vader wrote:
And Tess regaining LuthorCorp isn't relevant to anything. She hasn't done anything with the company all season.


It restored the show's status quo, getting everything in place for the ending.

Lex Vader wrote:
It would make a LOT more sense for Lionel to keep control, because then when Lex comes back, he'd still be the rightful heir. I'm not sure why they'd need to complicate it by forcing him to wrest it from Tess.


It's called developing a story. If nothing happens and there's no conflict or battles for control of anything, it would be a pretty boring show.

Lex Vader wrote:
This episode and "Homecoming", come to mind.

Homecoming was TERRIBLE.


Again, in your opinion. But they rarely do anything that gets your approval, lol. What, pray tell, made Homecoming so terrible? I thought it was pretty good. Especially the Superman sequence, and Helicopter rescue.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
 
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