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Superman Reboot: What we want to see...
James-El
You update Superman by letting Johns write the Reboot Grin. I mean he knows where he's going with it (comics).

Comics:

The most bothering thing for the comics right now is his Origin. In Action Comics #850 and the recent Brainiac & New Krytpon Arcs, his origin is being retold slowly.

He was born on Krypton, Krypton is a green and lush world (I wouldn't want it any other way, Goodbye 'ICEY' Donner Krypton) Krypton's technology is vast, The El family uses Sun Crystals a lot (Best thing about S:TM Krypton).

Now incorporate all this into the new movie, to give this generation (Mine) a solid an excellent origin.

Superman (Reboot):

The Origin is needed since there isn't one for you nay sayers Pfft

Then work your way from there, The 'Origin' shouldn't be that long, but it is needed. Maybe around 10 - 20 minutes including growing up in Smallville.

I'd love to see a proper Origin, (unlike in 1978) Because of what CG can give us today. Lush Krypton, cool technology they have, but not goofy.

And finally a good and realistic 'Superman' Movie

My thoughts, Grin

Edited by James-El on 27/10/2008 00:58


Superman: "I'm for everyone"
 
damz-el
johnnyfog wrote:
[quote]I think SR was a great ENDING to the Donner/Reeve movies


Hmm. Let's hope it was an ending. If the reboot bombs, S:TM will end up being canonical forever. It will be like the comics never existed; as a standalone movie, its becoming impossible to overwrite.


I think Krypton should be set in an Alternitive Universe, a diffent Dimension, intead of exsisting as a planet far, far, away.


Bleh. I don't think that would help matters.

Besides, Iron Man kept all the silly names and premises of the comic and it still worked.

The problem (IMO) is that DC's current flux between the silver and modern age is exacerbating the problem of updating Superman. Now the screenwriters won't have a clue what we want to see. Is the Byrne era dead? Apparently so! So how the heck are you supposed to update Superman?

S:TM will always be THE CLASSIC because it set the standard, the genre. But as u know any film nowadays, in Hollywood, it will always be rehashed or remade so bad that films become like Reality TV. BB and The Dark Knight updated this by using simple but intelligent storytelling. We all know that the same principles could easily apply to Superman, but the problem is trying to copy a same cconcept that has been recently successful. The only way u can update Superman is to lose this stupid "boy scout" tag and make a film that really resonates with todays society. feck (sorry edtor Smile) the Jor-el=God - Kal-el= Jesus concept, why not make a film where there is no religious comparisons, because as I said before, Superman is a WORLD icon (as far as I know, and I've travelled a bit) and just make a visually stunning film, where everyboby can walk out of the cinema and have there own interpretation about who Superman is, because in my view if Superman actually existed I personally think the whole world would have very similar opinions, probably out of fear, ENTER LEX LUTHOR!!!Wink

Edited by damz-el on 27/10/2008 23:15


sup, sup and away.......Guinness is good!!
 
damz-el
sorry johnnyfog i don't what happened but apparently i edited ur post as a response. not intentiona

*edit* nope just forgot how to delete carry on....Smile

Edited by damz-el on 28/10/2008 00:01


sup, sup and away.......Guinness is good!!
 
NeoRanger
Superman, because of his vast history and the fact that writers tend to write their favorite version of him, will always have to deal with coming off as dated. Batman, though just as old, escapes this fate easily, because his history is more defined. You'd have to be downright brain dead to write a Silver Age Batman movie in the 21st Century. With Superman, it's not as clear.

It's not as hard to distinguish either, of course. When Byrne was hired to do "Man of Steel", he was hired to "Marvelize" the character and make him completely fit in his setting. Regardless of what people think of him in the long term, Byrne did just that. It's not tough to do the same now; if anything, seeing how this is a movie and isn't as rigid as the comic book world, liberties in the mythos will not be as frowned upon. You don't have to lose the dynamic of Superman's dual identities, just because you don't make Clark a dated caricature. Like you don't have to lose Superman's earnestness if you don't have him saving kitties, while smiling at the camera. Or if you have him get pissed off at something bad (if anything, it's very much in-character).

Considering that the Byrne era is dead (and has been for a while) and that the current "Modern Era" is this semi-updated Silver Age, there might be confusion in how to modernize the character in a movie based on the current books. But really, Birthright. Don't turn it into a movie. But it's a fine example of a quite recent (the latest clear origin, IIRC) "modern" take that isn't the dated Silver Age or the dead Byrne era. If Waid could do it, others probably can, too.
 
johnnyfog
damz-el wrote:
why not make a film where there is no religious comparisons, because as I said before, Superman is a WORLD icon


If you imply a aura of godhood around Superman, I don't mind. I wouldn't include any Gog-style cults around Superman, though. Keep that stuff out.

As for Jor-El = God, whatcha gonna do? If you put the francise in the hands of someone with an interest in religious symbols (not saying Singer is governed by religion, but I'm sure he contemplates it a lot) you're gonna get references to Christ. I can't offer a objective view on this because I'm bored by the Jesus allegories. It's not profound, it stirs people up, and its a cheap way to draw attention to a movie.

That said, I think you can definitely expect more religious symbols in the future. Frown
NeoRanger wrote:
You don't have to lose the dynamic of Superman's dual identities, just because you don't make Clark a dated caricature

Well said. Regarding Superman's "earnestness", its simplistic to assume that audiences yearn for Superman to smash some heads. I'm not accusing you of this, I'm just saying that its a seductive idea to think that this is what people want. And I don't believe it, frankly. Spider-man was earnest to the max. The movie Wolverine was tepid compared to the comic Wolverine.

I am worried that DC's switch back to silver age Superman will (indeed) create a "dated caricature". You saw it with SR. Superman may not have been rigid, but his surroundings sure were. And now I hear Luthor may pop up in the reboot? Give me a break. The last time Superman fought a being of equal strength in a movie was freaking Nuclear Man.

I agree that Waid's book is probably a flimsy idea for a movie, though...especially all the Smallville garbage. (This is coming from somebody who owns the paperback edition....so you know I'm not just a hater). More importantly, it didn't quite manage to make Lois sympathetic or likable, just a hard-bitten nuisance like usual. One thing I did like about it, though, was the skinny, frail-looking Luthor.

~

Edited by johnnyfog on 28/10/2008 10:44

 
NeoRanger
And I don't believe it, frankly.


I don't believe it either. But there is this unspoken rule, in Hollywood, that Superman should always be too kind and too nice and constantly hold back. It's not just what we saw in SR, it's also what everyone, from actors and writers to fans who liked the movie, said when attempting to explain the film's failure with the public. Marsden's comments come to mind. And it's one-sided and sad, because Superman is more than that. He has a range of emotions and suitable reactions that should, at some point, be explored without the fear or disillusion that they will hurt the character.

People tend to confuse proper, in-character writing, with dull, two-dimensional, rigid presentation.

Edited by NeoRanger on 28/10/2008 12:43

 
johnnyfog
Superman is more than that. He has a range of emotions and suitable reactions that should, at some point, be explored


This is just an aside....but when I saw the SR trailer, there's a shot of Superman grimacing on New Krypton. The first thing I literally thought was, "Cool! He's being tempted to strangle Luthor!"

It later turned out he makes that face while lifting something heavy, I forget what.

I don't get what's so appealing about silver age Superman. The silver age Lex is arguably the most petty supervillain ever, second only to maybe Cobra Commander (who used to be a used car salesman, I kid you not).
 
Tra-EL
It's time for Superman to be taken seriously in today's era of films.

I think The Reeves Superman was perfect. IN THAT TIME PERIOD! It won't work in today's..which is why SR didn't even come CLOSE to the numbers that Batman produced.

With that being said, the Character of Superman needs to be explored. I would like to see a better understanding of his world Krypton and go more in depth in that aspect while incorporating Jor-El and eventually makings it's way to today's Kal-EL/Superman/Clark. I also like the Clark angle. The way they can tie Clark and Superman can be done in a flawless manor giving' the right story. Clark and Superman is fascinating to me and there needs to be a better separating story for the both to work.

Lois is a big part of any Superman franchise. I say get away from her a little bit and focus on the development of Superman in every aspect. We get that she falls in love with him and him with her and blah blah. Lois needs to be kept to a minimum.

Another thing we need is a VILLAIN we haven't seen before. I think there is a LOT of enemy's of Superman that can be KICKASS in todays films. F-R-E-S-H Story lines. Something Superman is in MAJOR need of.

Finally, Superman needs to hold a more meaner stature. Of course he'll always be the nice guy, but it's time to be harder in certain situations. I would like to see a Superman where he doesn't take any crap and goes about things in a "taking care of business" manor. I like the darker type that WB is talking about. Once that is incorporated, I think the fans will embrace Superman of today better and take him more seriously as far as films go.

Edited by Tra-EL on 29/10/2008 11:36


"You're my Superman!" - My Girl
 
Supermark
While I agree that a new villain would be nice to spice things up, if they're retelling the origins then I think Lex Luthor needs to be a part of that. I don't want to see a goofy Lex like in the movies, mind you, but something more devoted to the comic books.

A storyline involving Lex Luthor and Brainiac would be very interesting.
Check out the World's Finest Podcast at:
[url]http://tinmanfris...dbean.com/ [/url]
 
NeoRanger
The Internet has worn out Brainiac for me. Worse, yet, it's killed the Brainiac and Lex combo. I'd probably go for another villain (Mongul?) and add Lex as part of the regular cast, instead of an actual villain, at least for the first movie.
 
James-El
Yeah i'm glad to see people really think Lex should be in the movie, but not as a 'Villain'. He should be on the side like Neo, myself and others are saying.

For the first movie lets discuss villains. You should start off strong, but not to full on. I was thinking the villains for the first one would/could/should be Pfft

Bizarro (to me he's a must)
&
Metallo or Mongul or Parasite

Lex = creator well financer of Bizarro (As well as Metallo if he is the second villain) I have an idea for Bizarro. US military is concerned about this 'Superman' (realistic, to me anywayPfft) So they need to get his DNA, enter an unknown assistant/partner (Lex). They obviously need to resort to science to 'prepare' something in case Superman is not what he seems.

Metallo/Parasite is his answer, to do battle with Supes and the story picks up from there. Even though this is like middle of the movie (my MOVIE Pfft)

I've described how i would like to see Bizarro on a previous post (i don't know if its on this thread) He's not stupid he is just evil, his skin is white, Kryptonian DNA is hard to replicate.

Which villains do u guys think should be in the first movie?

Brainiac can hold out a whole movie by himself and with what i was thinking, he should be used it the sequel. Grin
Superman: "I'm for everyone"
 
I feel that the reboot, in playing into the "darker tone" aspect should use the 'Superman as an alienated being' aspect of the character, making him more vulnerable and sympathetic. While he is dealing with his feeling like an outsider among humans, Brainiac attempts to assimilate Earth. Supes and Brainiac have their conflict, during which the villain sets in motion the freeing of Zod and Co from the Phantom Zone, but they remain in background. Brainiac stirs up anti-alien sentiment among humans. Superman defeats Brainiac, Earth and Metropolis cheer their hero, but he still feels isolated.
In a sequel, Superman still feeling isolated, meets Zod and Co who inform Kal they are fellow Kryptonians. This plays on his strong need for kinship. He now feels less alone, and is happy for the fellowship with beings like him. Soon after, he learns their true identities and must stop their attempt to free other villains in the Zone and take over Earth.
I think this would create more pathos and really bring Supes home to more people...
Grin
 
FlashGordon
The biggest things to me are:

Superman has to be the sole survivor of the planet Krypton. Except for maybe a few Zoners. So no Supergirls, Superboys, Supermutts, or Super anything but MAN.

Clark Kent has to be the real person. Superman is the front. Make Clark more like how George Reeves portrayed him.

Superman has to let loose. I wanna see Superman in a balls-to-the-wall battle. Show Superman kick major ass [Brainiac, Darkseid, Mongul] someone new. Keep Lex in the movie but not as a "villian", not at first at least.

No Kryptonite. Its a cop-out, and a dated concept.
 
Kal-Elvis
With so many different responses, I should think that if WB read all of our ideas, they'd be no closer than they started! Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I'm just making an observation.

As for myself, I don't want to see a "dark" Superman. That's a cheap way of pseudo-modernization and will alienate people if not done *perfectly*. I think the plot can be dark, I think the villians should be dark and challenging, but Superman should be either the Jurgens-written mindset or the Johns-written mindset as seen in the Braniac storyline.

Clark as the real person - definitely. In a city of that many people and with Superman not wearing a mask, it'd be easy for many to assume he doesn't even have a secret identity. We find it hard to buy because we're looking from the fourth-wall and assume that people see both characters heavily. Just have Superman operate a tad more like he did in the early comics and not stick around long - keep contact to a minimum - and make that a consious thought of his as a partial explanation.

For a darker story, I'd say follow the Braniac pattern from the recent arc, but make it even more dark and disturbing. In their first encounter, Superman beats Braniac badly, but he gets away barely.. in the fight, Braniac is recharging and wants a way to keep Superman busy... taking some of Superman's DNA from the fight, he doesn't have enough power to make a proper replica.. so he creates what he can - Bizarro. Bizarro, having some of Superman's memory, thinks Superman (to him an evil fake) is behind his physical change. Superman and Bizarro fight, with both weak at the end of it. Braniac, now at full power, starts laying waste to Metropolis. Superman pulls it together and does as well as he can against Braniac but loses badly. As he keeps at it anyway, Bizarro comes back after Superman. Superman, desperate and badly hurt, half-yells at Bizarro in an angry-but-determined voice that if Bizarro were really Superman, he'd be stopping the destruction instead of ignoring it for his own problems. Before Bizarro can swing at Superman again, Superman flies toward Braniac again, doing enough to expose the power core of Braniac's form/ship/whatever, Bizarro finally realizes that Superman is right and that he must be the real Superman, but that Bizarro can set it right. Not having the power to fight Braniac, he flies into the core, sacrificing himself and stopping Braniac.

The end: All seems well and Superman recovers... then they zoom to the Lexcorp building, where a one gray vial and some robotic parts are placed on Lex's laboratory desk.

"These are the parts were were able to recover from the fight, as well as what we believe to be DNA dust from the Bizarro creature it created"

Lex: "Was that all?"

"No, Sir. We also obtained this - we believe this is the power source for the weapons that seemed to be the most effective against Superman."

Lex (dark, lifting the 2nd small vial, his face lit by the green glow of it): Very interesting... now we'll see who owns Metropolis..." (or something to that effect)

That's my new idea, anyway... FWIW.


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James-El
^^^^^

Not bad at all, it is really easy to come up with a story for a first "Superman Rebooted Movie" using Brainiac, a good story at that not just 'a story'.

But i think Brainiac is such a bigger character than that, I would use him for the 'sequel'. He can use his tech to target the world not just Superman, this creates a really big problem for Superman seeing as how he cannot be two places at once, on the planet.

Picture Brainiac saying (in a trailer and a line in the movie Pfft) "You cannot save them all, Kryptonian/Kal-El"
Superman: "I'm for everyone"
 
Kal-Elvis
He can use his tech to target the world not just Superman,


That kind of idea was what I had in mind for their "first encounter" (with Braniac realizing too late who/what Superman is and thus being soundly beaten at the end of it)

Only trouble with saving Braniac for the sequel is that there aren't many villians (maybe Darkseid, maybe Doomsday) that casual viewers would recognize as one of Superman's villians.. I think it's easier to branch off into lesser known villians after you establish an amazing story with one of the biggies.

Again, jmo - glad you liked the story, it just kinda came to mind all at once, very quickly.
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James-El
Also my 'can't be two places at once' does pose a threat to Superman, let's say Brainiac is indeed in this first one. This is also Superman's first proper year being 'Superman'. He does not have enough experience against things that can actually hurt/kill him. Making this tough and a challenge for him. Proving Superman is not invincible or successful, always.

I was really trying to stay away from a confrontation against Brainiac in the first movie, but that doesn't mean he can't be in the movie (for my movie/vision) I'll post later some of the things i had in mind, Elvis.
Superman: "I'm for everyone"
 
James-El
I cannot stop thinking about my 'sequel' it's much easier to think up of Pfft. For my sequel i'm thinking of EPIC scenes, story & action. I realize you cannot have every moment of the movie BIG.

'Sequel' titled 'Superman: The Man Of Steel'
I'm really trying to use the following
1. Brainiac
2. An invasion on Earth
3. multiple threats
4. Revelations (maybe)
5. Realism

Main Cast
Clark/Superman: Brandon Routh, (perfect casting)
Brainiac: ????
Lar Gand/Mon-El: Tom Welling
Lex Luthor: Kevin Spacey

While she's not it this sequel, hmm she might be if i fit her in for story reasons, but i have better plans for Supergirl.

Supergirl: Hayden Panettiere, (perfect casting)

Brainiac is after knowledge, he's always wanted to shape the universe, to his liking. I am going to use this as the back story for Brainiac. It does expand Wink

Beginning of Film: (Working on it) Pfft

Main 'action parts of the film'

* Brainiac is after Superman for unknown reasons at first.

* Brainiac looks exactly the same, physically as in the previous 'Brainiac Arc'.

* Very similar to Superman: the animated series, Brainiac is 'good guy'

* He achieves this in the beginning of the film, by invading the planet Daxam and abducting some of it's citizens, among them is Lar Gand AKA Mon-El.

* Unleashes them on Earth, by mind control showing that Brainiac is capable of controlling 50 - 200 people at once.

* Superman steps up against the whole army, think of them as scouts, scouting planets they want.
Superman can handle 5 at a time due to being stronger & faster than them and also experience is another factor.

* They do wear him out, after trial and error (Brainiac) makes them attack at once. This is also a test to see how strong Superman is. Superman manages to K.O. some of them including Lar Gand. disrupting Brainiac's connection to his mind. At this time nobody knows what happens to some of the KO'd Daxamites. Enter Luthor and his team of scientists taking Lar's body into one of Luthor's labs.

* Brainiac's ship comes in, robots are released obviously kicking the Daxamites butts, making Brainiac look like a hero.

* Brainiac says that they were only scouts and that this race is feared across the universe, because of they're conquering ways. They invade a planet only with a small armada and if it is worth conquering, they send in the rest. Superman believes Brainiac. leaving Superman concerned as well as the Earth's government. Obviously in the dialogue of this scene Brainiac explains his people know how to defeat them with their tech. He was sent to help out victim planets if needed.

I have the rest of it figured out (not final, this is more like a first draft)

I would like to use these characters. As you can see the story has many twists and turns, i'm trying to aim for something long and complicated like 'The Dark Knight'. it had so many layers, that in the end that's what made it successful.

It might seem like i'm doing to much for one movie, due to this post being lengthy. But if this was actually on screen everything i've described would be very short. Reading something is always longer than watching.

It's like trying to describe part of any fight scene in any movie 'he then punched him with his left fist, the enemy then blocked' on screen thats like 1 second.

Sorry if there are spelling mistakes, i did not proof read this.

Thanks Elvis and others, please post comments (mainly you Elvis Pfft)

Edited by James-El on 22/12/2008 06:49


Superman: "I'm for everyone"
 
Kal-Elvis
That's very good, too. That has a massive sci-fi feel - I was almost thinking something horror-esque - but could incorporate both sides by showing he has to use his probes to inject something (nanites?) into the bloodstream to control them.. make the process almost gut-wrenching for the audience to watch (or do a fake out like TDK did with the Joker's mobster knife-kill). In a perfect world, the audience has the crap scared out of them by Braniac before he and Superman even meet, making his team up with Superman bring that much more of a reaction from the audience.

I agree on giving it layers like "The Dark Knight". Only problem is that it might not have the same effect since the biggest source of tension for the audience isn't resolved in this - but it could still work. One other thing I just thought of... another thing TDK had going for it was the fact that it's an earthy story, and it might be hard to have a space-related story with the same effect (might come off more Star Wars than TDK - nothing necessarily wrong with that, though, just depnds on what you want or the WB suits are looking for). Problem is, I can't come up with a good story that has that tone with characters that the general public won't laugh out of town before seeing (except Lex, but that's way overdone).

Love the idea of Tom Welling as Mon-El. That's a great way to work him, imo. Brandon would be great, but if he doesn't work, I guess I'll do it. LOL

For Braniac, I'm of two minds about it. One has him just like the recent Action story.. the other thinks that a modified robot Braniac would be good for the freaky-ness.. maybe have Braniac be robotic freaky-ness underneath a skin he grows to gain Earth's trust. I know that's stealing a bit from Metallo, but it'd be cool, I think.

Just my thoughts, but I like it. I also think that maybe your movie could even feasibly lead into mine (mine being the sequel to yours, of course). Only trouble being that it's hard to follow up Superman fighting a ton of Daxamites with him fighting one Bizarro, even with the emotional conflict involved, but that's my problem, lol

Anyway, don't worry about the long posts, I'd actually like to hear a more detailed version since that would show more of the nuances.

Thanks!

Edited by Kal-Elvis on 22/12/2008 13:12


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James-El
i was going for sci-fi because that's what Superman really is and we all know that Wink

But again the general public Angry

Also this 'movie' is a sequel to the rebooted one, this is not the rebooted one. Too much for a first in the series. i was hoping you and others of course had some ideas on how the 'first one' should be.

Obviously i don't want you to use Brainiac Pfft but during the end of the film i would show a ship (wonder who's that is?) nearing a planet or something like that.

Which villains would you use for the 'reboot' the one coming in a couple of years?

I'd like to go with Metallo & Bizarro, but i cannot think of story, actual i can but not a good one it doesn't have purpose sort of.

About your nanites suggestion, while i was writing this i was like, "should he inject/insert something? it might sound, (not look) too sci-fi". As soon as i read your post i was like "he picked up on it"

Brainiac being a robot was another thing, but thanks to Action Comics i was thinking the Brainiac doing all the talking, explaining & pretty much the one we see for the rest of the movie until the end Wink is a robot. The real Brainiac is in his 'pod' improving his body (action comics) until he's angry enough to come out and have what I call 'the fight' of this film.

But a problem with this is Superman could use his X-ray vision and see that he's a robot, another solution to this is the very thought of Superman using x-ray vision to look at someone is just wrong and he wouldn't do that.

Also the nanites could be another story element, in the end you always have to ask what am I going to do with 50 - 200 Daxamites. I think i have found an answer.

When Brainiac's robots attack, the nanites could release 'Lead' into their bloodstream, killing them all except for Mon-El, captured by Luthor (previous post). Luthor can extract them, flush them out somehow, whatever.

If Superman takes a closer look with his 'vision' Brainiac can just simply say that's how to kill them, injecting them with nanites full of 'Lead'. He could also comfort Superman by saying they are all murderers, Superman would argue and all
One solution, but i don't really like it.

I like this one
I think Brainiac shouldn't kill them in front of Superman his robots should KO them all, then later when the robots supposedly put the criminals into holding cells, Brainiac is disgusted and just finds them useless they served their purpose, 'release the lead time', while inside the ship.

This adds to the horror. imagine the KO'd bodys in holding cells, then they all start wake up and scream in pain. Screaming stops we hear 'thuds'. We get a glimpse of a dead body, a pale looking corpse with a little bit of blood pouring/dripping from his/her mouth and eyes.
(maybe)

About my Supergirl casting did you like it? i have another potential sequel involving Supergirl, Darkseid & Doomsday (this sequel being the third in the series). Very similar to how Supergirl was introduced in the Superman/Batman arc, but with the aftermath of my 'Superman: The Man Of Steel' the one i posted above Grin

Got any more ideas, Elvis & others, for the first film? leave comments about this post. Thanks Wink

Edited by James-El on 22/12/2008 20:09


Superman: "I'm for everyone"
 
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