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Superman Reboot: What we want to see...
Pravus
Let's use this thread to express what we would like to see in the reboot; everything from Superman's build to his family life, villains, location for the movie, etc. Feel free to make comparisons to any Superman material but please don't post movie/script ideas, there are already threads for them.

The purpose of this thread is to keep the conversation rolling regardless of which direction since it is a "multi-topic" thread. Too many times good off topic conversations have to be cut short; as long as we play nice this shouldn't be a problem.

I'll start by saying I would like to see the reboot reflect elements of the John Byrne revamp and think Superman should have a muscular build similar to the way he is in Kingdom Come.

Edited by Pravus on 25/12/2008 12:50

 
Utah13
YES!, and don?t forget, lets get Superman in a red cape, not a raspberry fruit roll-up
 
sbeamish
Pravus wrote:
I'll start by saying I would like to see the reboot reflect elements of the John Byrne revamp and think Superman should have a muscular build similar to the way he is in Kingdom Come.


I'll go along with the build and the Byrne reality, but I like a more physically powerful Superman than the one Byrne gave us.
 
johnnyfog
I'll go along with the build and the Byrne reality, but I like a more physically powerful Superman than the one Byrne gave us.


Byrne's Superman was plenty powerful, sbeamish. I assume you're talking about the strength to rearrange galaxies and spin planets like basketballs?

While I would hate to see Luthor pop up again (he doesn't have a snowball's chance of getting a fair shake on the big screen), I can't deny I would love to see him in the philanthropist/secretly evil mode. Only this time, make him a little more sympathetic, less dedicated to Superman's destruction simply because he wants to act like a big man. There isn't enough time to establish a friendship between Lex and Superman, but I would like Lex's dark side to at least come as a shock (to the characters, at least).
 
NeoRanger
less dedicated to Superman's destruction simply because he wants to act like a big man.


Though the safest way to go about it would be Lex fighting Superman off in fear of what his presence might bring to the mere mortals that he himself represents, the old petty explanation can work well too, if a background for Lex is established. He might want to kill Superman, because he wants to be the bigger man of the two, but if his background makes him sympathetic by showing that he "deserves" that status, while the fancy alien snatches his chance from him, it might work.
 
Lex Vader
I want him to look at least 35. He's a mythological hero, not a character in a Lifetime "too young to be a daddy" movie.
 
copacetic
I'd like them to write him with something of a sense of humor, and not a terminally glum, serious character. Something like a PG-13 version of Jesse Custer from Preacher - a Southern boy with the sense of humor to match, but not afraid to get his hands dirty in a fight, serious when he needs to be.
 
NY4Superman
I'd love to see a different take on the Origin Story, you know something semi-original without going too far off base of the original origin story.
"Marriage is an institution, It takes commitment. If that doesn't constitute a nut house, I don't know what does."
-Gene Simmons
 
johnnyfog
NeoRanger wrote:
He might want to kill Superman, because he wants to be the bigger man of the two, but if his background makes him sympathetic by showing that he "deserves" that status, while the fancy alien snatches his chance from him, it might work.


That's about the flimsiest motive for movie villainy since...uh, well, Kevin Spacey in Superman Returns.

A self-made man who resents Superman muscling in on his fame? Why don't we just cast Donald Trump? I can think of a dozen noxious, vile corporate types who could mimic Byrne's Luthor. But the result would make Green Goblin and Kingpin look like Shakespeare by comparison.

I don't want to wholly disagree, though. I find Lex's "modern" motive (alien paranoia) to be totally unconvincing and lame.

"Aaaaagh! Kryptonians are coming to kill us! Run for the hills!"

...So I'd take a CEO Lex over that any day of the week.
 
ChurchDoesTex
johnnyfog wrote:
I don't want to wholly disagree, though. I find Lex's "modern" motive (alien paranoia) to be totally unconvincing and lame.

"Aaaaagh! Kryptonians are coming to kill us! Run for the hills!"

I don't think it is so much a paranoia as it is a fearful prejudice against aliens. Kind of an allegory for common attitudes here in the states. He masks his prejudice under the guise he is protecting Earth. I dig it.
[img]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g306/rhervey41/wtf-Copy.jpg[/img] is not a valid Image.
http://www.seekin...perity.com
 
NeoRanger
Why don't we just cast Donald Trump? I can think of a dozen noxious, vile corporate types who could mimic Byrne's Luthor. But the result would make Green Goblin and Kingpin look like Shakespeare by comparison.

But Lex's motives aren't supposed to be taken out of context, meaning they're not supposed to have the same impact when used with characters other than Superman. If his motive comes down to this, it should be represented in a way that is ultimately identifiable by all of us, as he should be our greatest -and lowest- representative. That's what I was aiming at.
 
Gabe
Who would like to see direct the "Superman" reboot?
Vote now at Superherohype.com
Right now Zack Snyder is the top choice.

I voted for Brad Bird.
 
johnnyfog
If his motive comes down to this, it should be represented in a way that is ultimately identifiable by all of us, as he should be our greatest -and lowest- representative. That's what I was aiming at.


I suspect you're thinking exactly what Byrne was thinking when he re-envisioned Lex. And, let's face it, the pre-Crisis Luthor wasn't exactly a shining bastion of generosity, either.

Yup, Luthor has always been depicted as a pile of filth.

I just think it's a little unseemly for Superman greatest adversary to be a stuck-up businessman. I dunno. Maybe it's too true to life??

Right now Zack Snyder is the top choice.


I can't believe this guy has gotten this much mileage out of 300. Frown
 
Pravus
As a kid I loved the evil genius criminal scientist luthor but I would much prefer the philanthropist with the anti-Superman agenda; I think he works best.

Please, no more real estate fetish Luthor.

For the most part I think Michael Rosenbaum nails Luthor.

As far as how old Superman should be I have always felt he should be at least mid 30 but with Hollywood's obsession with youth, I don't see that happening.

I also agree with those who feel the need for a different take on the origin story. I liked John Byrne's cold Krypton, 2-3 pages, short & sweet. Up until then Krypton had a bad 1950 sci-fi look to it. I haven't much cared for any of the current origin retellings, especially the most recent.

I don't want to see another crystal Fortress.

I don't want to see Brando as Jor-EL anymore.

Give us something new, just don't go radical.

I'm a die hard Superman Comic fan but I'm the first to admit when a different spin is better. EX:

I think the JLU Cadmus origin for Doomsday blows the comic origin away, Smallville Red Kryptonite works better than Comic book Red-K, and I like the Superman Animated Series Brainiac's origin (but not his appearance).

I want this Superman movie to be it's own franchise and not have ties to any of the other movies (other than the John Williams Theme) and I'm sure in the right hands it can happen.

Edited by Pravus on 29/08/2008 19:16

 
Lightoffon
I want to see a John Byrne reboot as well. I think it makes more sense for him to be Clark Kent who's secret identity is Superman. Both parents should be alive, he should decide to become a hero because of his upbringing, not because something bad happened to him.

I prefer businessman Lex to the cartoony criminal mastermind. It helps ground the story about an alien with superpowers into reality.

I did like the Krypton of the Byrne world better than the crystal world of the Superman movies and Smallville, however, it wouldn't be a big deal if they used that again. The only problem I forsee is that people will connect it to Superman Returns and there will be mass confusion.
 
NeoRanger
Maybe it's too true to life??

Heh, that might actually be the reason, subconsciously.

Speaking of Byrne's Superman, I'm split. If current writers are involved, beyond supervision/reviewing, it's safe to assume we'll be getting more Silver Age (if the post-IC era is anything to go by). On the other hand, since Warner wants to go "darker" (assuming that means more down to earth, more realistic), they can draw a great deal from the Post-Crisis origin.

Personally, though I consider myself more of a Byrne fan than a pre-Crisis fan, I don't mind, as long as they actually get stuff from the books - especially in terms of characterization.
 
johnnyfog
Lightoffon wrote:
I prefer businessman Lex to the cartoony criminal mastermind. It helps ground the story about an alien with superpowers into reality.


Uh, what?

Wouldn't a realistic corporate villain do more to "ground the story into reality"?

Pravus wrote:
I liked John Byrne's cold Krypton, 2-3 pages, short & sweet. Up until then Krypton had a bad 1950 sci-fi look to it. I haven't much cared for any of the current origin retellings, especially the most recent.

I don't want to see another crystal Fortress.


An interesting part about the Byrne reboot is that Superman lives in an apartment in Metropolis and not some souped-up futuristic ice palace.

I don't mind the FOS, but I have to admit that a live-action Superman story (L&C, for example) runs a lot smoother without it.

The new Krypton you see in the comics is supposed to harken back to the golden age krypton, which was a total utopia exept for a couple short-sighted guys who didn't count on it to blow up.

Worse, now it turns out that General Zod was behind the whole thing, and it's all his fault (?!?!).

If Krypton is full of cold & arrogant people who refuse to avert their own demise, it helps the story because it becomes Superman's job to prevent what happened to his homeworld from happening on Earth.

Edited by johnnyfog on 30/08/2008 09:47

 
Pravus
johnnyfog wrote:
An interesting part about the Byrne reboot is that Superman lives in an apartment in Metropolis and not some souped-up futuristic ice palace.

I don't mind the FOS, but I have to admit that a live-action Superman story (L&C, for example) runs a lot smoother without it.

The new Krypton you see in the comics is supposed to harken back to the golden age krypton, which was a total utopia exept for a couple short-sighted guys who didn't count on it to blow up.

Worse, now it turns out that General Zod was behind the whole thing, and it's all his fault (?!?!).

If Krypton is full of cold & arrogant people who refuse to avert their own demise, it helps the story because it becomes Superman's job to prevent what happened to his homeworld from happening on Earth.


Oh, I would love to see a new Fortress of Solitude, just not the Ice Palace from the Donner movies/Smallville/Superman Returns. There have been some good takes on the FOS since the Byrne revamp leading up to the "Sunstone Crystal Ice Palace" we have now. Even the Animated one.

I love the Silver Age golden door/giant gold key fortress, it's my favorite but I don't want to see that on the big screen, it wouldn't work.

As far as the New Krypton, as I posted earlier I don't care for it at all but of all the Zod/Ursa/Non comic incarnations I do like elements of the current take on them alot, but again, we don't need to see anymore of them in a movie.

I'm hoping the premise of this movie is that Superman is already established and well into his career and not the new kid on the block. It would be great to sit down and watch the movie as if I had just picked up a comic that was starting a new story arc. Everyone knows who Superman is or has a good enough idea that will get them into the movie.

I'd like to see Lois and Clark/Superman already married (or at least involved to the point of her knowing his secret identity) but that might mean having to educate the general audience, which probably wouldn't work because they are probably to used to the concept of Lois pursuing Superman. If they were already committed it would establish a relationship without dragging out the romantic angle.

I'm sure there are writers who can tell a story that would appeal to the general audience and those of us in it for the long haul and stay true to the characters.
 
Lightoffon
johnnyfog wrote:
Lightoffon wrote:
I prefer businessman Lex to the cartoony criminal mastermind. It helps ground the story about an alien with superpowers into reality.


Uh, what?

Wouldn't a realistic corporate villain do more to "ground the story into reality"?

That's what I was saying. By "businessman Lex" I meant a realistic corporate villain.

Pravus wrote:
I'd like to see Lois and Clark/Superman already married (or at least involved to the point of her knowing his secret identity) but that might mean having to educate the general audience, which probably wouldn't work because they are probably to used to the concept of Lois pursuing Superman. If they were already committed it would establish a relationship without dragging out the romantic angle.

I think it could work well if Lois and Clark are involved and the movies enters when Clark is trying to find a good time to tell her his secret. That way we all know where everyone stands.
 
NeoRanger
If Krypton is full of cold & arrogant people who refuse to avert their own demise, it helps the story because it becomes Superman's job to prevent what happened to his homeworld from happening on Earth.

That was always one of the things that I liked about Byrne's Krypton, actually (even if Byrne's intention was different). A cold, pretentious "Utopia", through which Jor-El's fatherly love not only saves his only son, but essentially becomes the very core of Superman's representation of hope in an Earth that could very much become the same.

About Lois and Clark already together... well, in Smith's script it wasn't bad. But I doubt they will kill the "triangle" dynamic in the first movie. Personally -if we're talking trilogy- I'd have Lois finding out toward the end of the first movie, her and Clark struggling to establish a healthy relationship in the second and dealing with it in the third.
 
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